Can you checkmate with 2 Knights and King?

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FChopin99

Can you force it? Can it even happen?

notmtwain
FChopin99 wrote:

Can you force it? Can it even happen?

No, you cannot force it.  

It can happen only if your opponent isn't paying attention.

MLG420

It is possible, but only if your opponent makes a mistake or wants to lose :).

If not, in the case when you drove his king into the corner, you can't stop

him from running away, since otherways you will get a stalemate.

FChopin99

I see. You can probably force it if you have a bishop on hand, right?

notmtwain
FChopin99 wrote:

I see. You can probably force it if you have a bishop on hand, right?

Yes. Of course, but two knights, a bishop and a king versus a king is a different problem.

With just the two knights, the defending side needs to have a pawn so that when the king would otherwise have been stalemated, it still has a move.

Don't you own any endgame books? This would be covered in any basic endgame book. There are also lessons about it in Chess Mentor- try the King versus Two Knights and a King lesson in the Build Your Technique course.

FChopin99

I don't own any endgame books. I thought this forum was for asking basic questions but it looks like I was wrong! Sorry to bother you.

notmtwain
FChopin99 wrote:

I don't own any endgame books. I thought this forum was for asking basic questions but it looks like I was wrong! Sorry to bother you.

It's not a basic question.  We gave you the right answer. It is impossible to force mate without the defender making bad moves.

However, in order to explain it further, I suggest that you get a book or use one of the Chess Mentor lessons. It is not easy to explain or demonstrate all the possibilities.

I just did that Chess Mentor lesson. It will show you a lot about why forcing mate isn't possible.

Pulpofeira
FChopin99 escribió:

I don't own any endgame books. I thought this forum was for asking basic questions but it looks like I was wrong! Sorry to bother you.

It is, and I don't think he feels bothered since he is one of the most helpful members on the site. I think he's only suggesting you could get a great benefit from basic endgame books about many related questions you could have.

FChopin99

Ohhh I see. Sorry about that, John! Is there a particular book you would recommend?

JFSebastianKnight

The chess mentor on this site.

FChopin99

Isn't it limited for free members?

DrinkingLikeTal

You could read about it on wikipedia too. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_endgame

glamdring27

I took a glance at that chess mentor lesson, but it just seems odd to me.  I don't understand what I'm aiming for.  I know checkmate can't be forced yet I'm being judged on my technique at trying to achieve something that can't be achieved. I assume it is looking for moves that give your opponent maximum chance to hang themselves, but that's not the kind of 'technique' I'm interested in.

I've not seen a 'proof' that two Knights can't deliver mate, but I'm happy to just trust the books on that one!

Sqod

There was another thread on this topic just a few days ago:

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/k2n-vs-k

Pulpofeira
[COMMENT DELETED]
Sqod

(p. 19)

1.5 King and Two Knights

vs King and Pawn

 

At first sight it is a bit surprising, but king and

two knights cannot mate a lone king by force

because stalemate situations arise when the

king is stuck near a corner. However, if the de-

fender has a pawn, it can provide the desired

tempi. The Russian theoretician Troitsky made

a detailed study of this endgame and discovered

the following rule:

 

8/8/1-4-1/2-2-2/-2--2-/8/8/8 - - - - -

1.06

      The Troitsky Line

(p. 20)

   If the pawn is securely blockaded by a white

knight no further down that the line, then Black

loses, no matter where the kings are. If the pawn

has advanced beyond the line, there is usually a

drawing and a losing zone for the defending

king, which were also analysed by Troitsky.

Muller, Karsten, and Frank Lamprecht. 2014. Fundamental Chess Endings. London, England: Gambit Publications Ltd.

 

 

notmtwain
Arjun316694 wrote:
notmtwain wrote:
FChopin99 wrote:

Can you force it? Can it even happen?

No, you cannot force it.  

It can happen only if your opponent isn't paying attention.

 

I don't think that position is possible!!


Of course it's possible. It requires a weak move from black but that's not impossible.

FChopin99

Sorry, I did not realize a topic had already been made a few days ago.

thatcham

No, not without your opponent cooperating or blundering. Cool