It's very hard to win Queen vs Rook game, unless your opponent doesn't know what he's doing.
I believe it would only be cheating if you actually got any hint on what move to do next. But if somebody simply said - it is possible to win Q vs. R, then it's not cheating - just a fact.
It's not cheating at all. You are allowed to use books. There are numerous books (I have one in my possesion) that explain how to win with queen versus rook. It's the same as with opening moves. You're allowed to look them up as well.
Not only is it possible but if your opponent is not a GM then it may not even be too hard.
Human players often make mistakes.
mathijs wrote:
It's not cheating at all. You are allowed to use books. There are numerous books (I have one in my possesion) that explain how to win with queen versus rook. It's the same as with opening moves. You're allowed to look them up as well.
I guess that's why I prefer playing by Circle of Trust rules.
Thanks everybody for the comments!!!!!!!!! I am stuck on whether to agree with eternal21 or mathjis on the book. I like to think that I am trying to learn chess but sometimes I just look for the easy answer and google it rather than trying to learn a reason for moves. Books teach reasoning and I wouldn't be able to decide whether using a book to understand an opening that an oppenent is using then waiting till the game is over. It is kind of like war, the best soldiers/players study and learn as they go and play war/chess games. Thanks again for everyone's comments.
Actually it seems a draw if both sides play w/o making a mistake but you have to check out the time... You may win by the time...
xxcc57 wrote:
Actually it seems a draw if both sides play w/o making a mistake but you have to check out the time... You may win by the time...
White can win, it has to get the black king to a corner. First it needs to get it's queen a little closer and then it needs to begin advancing it's king. Once white traps black on one of the sides of the board, then white will push it into a corner
yes, it is cheating. how do you not know that the queen has the advantage?
rimmy wrote:
yes, it is cheating. how do you not know that the queen has the advantage?
I would know because the queen is worth 9 points and the rook is worth 5. I just googled to see if it was a draw or a win for white. I think it is obvious who would win if it is not a draw. I took the draw though so I guess I must have agreed with you. Thanks for the feedback!
Will someone please clear this up by referencing an actual rule. It doesn't remotely seem like cheating to me, however I'm unfamiliar with the rules (if any) regarding using reference material during a game.
it would be cheating if you googled a guide saying "play X then Y then Z ....etc" Then YOU are not playing the game, but the author of the book. However, reading something that just says ROOK +K vs QUEEN +K goes to queen is not cheating b/c you would have to figure out for yourself how to achieve that
As this discussion
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/is-using-a-computer-to-help-you-with-your-moves-cheatinglike-going-to-a-website?lc=1#last_comment also discovered, the statement about what constitutes cheating on chess.com why using books and DataBases is not cheating is very succint. Does it need an article spelling it out in detail?
Remludar: The actual rule, implied by most of the posts, is that in turn-based chess, you may use books, but you may not use endgame databases or other players.
The key distinction is that a book will explain in principle how to win an endgame such as this, whereas another player or an endgame database say "oh - move here, then here". At least that is what I see as the key distinction. :-)
The rules should be clarified. While I don't mind if somebody is using game explorer against me during the opening as much, using endgame tables should be considered cheating.
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
Remludar: The actual rule, implied by most of the posts, is that in turn-based chess, you may use books, but you may not use endgame databases or other players. The key distinction is that a book will explain in principle how to win an endgame such as this, whereas another player or an endgame database say "oh - move here, then here". At least that is what I see as the key distinction. :-)
Dead on Ozzie. Going to a website is no different than using a book or a magazine. What the OP did was not against the rules of the site at all, and was not cheating. Knowing that you can win in a position doesn't mean that you can actually do it! :-)
eternal21 wrote:
The rules should be clarified. While I don't mind if somebody is using game explorer against me during the opening as much, using endgame tables should be considered cheating.
The rule is pretty clear, it states: "You may NOT get any help from any person or any chess engine throughout the course of a game, including tablebases. You MAY use books, magazines, or other articles. You may also use computer databases (including Chess.com's Game Explorer)."
So, using an endgame tablebase IS against the rules. But that's not what the OP was doing, he consulted a website which gave him general principles for winnng. This is not the same thing.
The rules are very clear.
"You may NOT get any help from any person or any chess engine throughout the course of a game, including tablebases. You MAY use books, magazines, or other articles. You may also use computer databases (including Chess.com's Game Explorer)."
If you ask someone "Is this a draw?" or "How do you win?" then you are cheating. If you use Fritz or endgame tablebases to check the result or find moves, you are cheating.
If you google "Queen vs Rook" or open up Fundamental Chess Endings to learn the result and winning procedure that is not cheating.
likesforests wrote:
The rules are very clear. "You may NOT get any help from any person or any chess engine throughout the course of a game, including tablebases. You MAY use books, magazines, or other articles. You may also use computer databases (including Chess.com's Game Explorer)." If you ask someone "Is this a draw?" or "How do you win?" then you are cheating. If you use Fritz or endgame tablebases to check the result or find moves, you are cheating. If you google "Queen vs Rook" or open up Fundamental Chess Endings to learn the result and winning procedure that is not cheating.
This makes sense. It shouldn't be illegal to use a reference to determine if a position is won or not. It definitely should, however, be illegal to have any assistance in the actual calculating of moves to achieve the win.
Remludar wrote:
likesforests wrote:
The rules are very clear. "You may NOT get any help from any person or any chess engine throughout the course of a game, including tablebases. You MAY use books, magazines, or other articles. You may also use computer databases (including Chess.com's Game Explorer)." If you ask someone "Is this a draw?" or "How do you win?" then you are cheating. If you use Fritz or endgame tablebases to check the result or find moves, you are cheating. If you google "Queen vs Rook" or open up Fundamental Chess Endings to learn the result and winning procedure that is not cheating. This makes sense. It shouldn't be illegal to use a reference to determine if a position is won or not. It definitely should, however, be illegal to have any assistance in the actual calculating of moves to achieve the win.
It is legal to do a bit more than just find it is a win or not, it is legal to look up a book to discover the winning method (as per what likesforests wrote). Ozzie describes it well:
The key distinction is that a book will explain in principle how to win an endgame such as this, whereas another player or an endgame database say "oh - move here, then here". At least that is what I see as the key distinction. :-)
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I played a game a few days ago where the following pieces were left on the board. I was white and sadly, I haven't studied the game enough to know if this was a game I could still win or not excluding a huge blunder on blacks part. I googled 'queen king rook king' and got my answer. Yes you can win if you are the queen, but since I had used google I decided to accept blacks offer for a draw. (Partly thanks to the movie Searching for Bobbie Fischer, that Oginshcille forced me to watch about offering a way out.) I honestly did not look at how to win the game but whether it was possible to win. Does it still mean I would have been cheating if I had continued the game?
PS... Thanks for all the comments and this is where white needs to put black to win. Notice that wherever black goes on it's next move, white will move the queen to mate.