Regarding Rooks

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theamericanplaya

How exactly can (or is it even possible) a rook and king checkmate a king? I played against the rook in a game for a long time, eventually my opponent cracked, and I finally claimed the draw. It'd be nice to know so I figure out whether to resign (if I'm the lone king) and how to ensnare the king (if I have the upper hand)

TeslasLightning

http://www.chess.com/computer-workout/

Scroll down to "mating with a rook" and you can do this against the computer over and over until you have your technique down.  A rook and king can always mate a lone king.  First, use the rook and king to drive the lone king to an edge of the board.  Lock him in to the last row of squares with the rook, and then get your king in front of him, taking away the three escape squares, then drop the rook on his row of squares checkmating him.  Just watch how the computer does it.  Good luck!

theamericanplaya

I'm not a premium member Cry But I think I understand what you're talking about.

So, it basically works like this?

If I made a missed mate, it's because I pieced this together fairly quickly.
The reason why I wasn't sure about 1 rook checkmates is this is basically how my game went:
He blundered quite a bit, but my computer doesn't like question marks for either side. It doesn't like exclamation points for either side either
theamericanplaya

Ok. I've think I've got Zugzwang down now. Although: Could you please not post the name of the opponent? It makes me feel guilty, since my rating is only 979.

Eebster

Zugzwang is central to rook checkmates. A typical mate might look something like this:


This method is very slow but very simple, and it will always mate in less than fifty moves. Notice how you sometimes need to waste a move with the rook to gain the opposition.

Eebster
yeres30 wrote:
Eebster wrote:

Zugzwang is central to rook checkmates. A typical mate might look something like this:

This method is very slow but very simple, and it will always mate in less than fifty moves. Notice how you sometimes need to waste a move with the rook to gain the opposition.


After 7.Kf2 Kh4, it should take about 8 more moves to get a mate not 32. Take note that after 3.Kf5 the reply 3...Kh4 attacking the R at g3 is not met by 4.Kf4 but by 4.Ra3 (or even Rb3, Rc3, Rd3, Re3 or Rf3) which forces Black's K (zugzwang)  into the typical mating position: 4...Kh5 5.Rh3 checkmate.


If it mates in less than 50, what's wrong with it? The point of course is to understand the princpile of zugzwang, not to mate as quickly as possible.

This isn't actually how I would mate with a rook and king

Eebster

yeres, zugzwang is used some five times in my example. Every time the defender gives back the opposition, it is because he is in zugzwang and has no choice.

TeslasLightning
You guys put some great answers and examples on here!
Eebster

OK, now I understand the confusion. My example wasn't supposed to be an actual mate, it was supposed to demonstrate how you force the king back. I intentionally made it take as long as possible to do it as many times as I could in one example.

I guess I should have made that more clear.

TeslasLightning

I like your example, as it is methodical and demonstrates the technique perfectly.

Eebster

yeres, you don't need to educate me on how to checkmate with a rook. Seriously, I can do the elementary mates on my own. I really think you should reread my posts to understand their intention.

Your diagram is a simple mate in three. I'll leave it to the OP to work out both lines.

Dragec

I like the eebster's example, this is how I learned to checkmate with the rook.

I think that example is best if the king is in the middle.

Just confine the king, then follow his king with yours, if you need a zugzwang, or if he attack your rook, just swing it to the other side.

OK, there is a faster way, I put it too, but IMO you'd better learn the basic principle first Cool

 

Dragec

I also disagree with yeres(and support the eebster), IMO it is much more educational to learn to mate with rook the longer way.

Since the OP obviously didn't know how to mate, you will learn much more by playing it out with several zugzwangs.

 

Once you learn it by heart, and when you can mate when you eyes closed (not literally), then you can look how to improve it.

theamericanplaya
Eebster wrote:

yeres, you don't need to educate me on how to checkmate with a rook. Seriously, I can do the elementary mates on my own. I really think you should reread my posts to understand their intention.

Your diagram is a simple mate in three. I'll leave it to the OP to work out both lines.

I believe these would be the checkmates?


Dragec

It wasn't so hard to learn it, was it?  Wink

trigs

here's a good site that has a tablebase for endgames (with 6 pieces or less). excellent for learning endgames.

http://www.k4it.de/index.php?topic=egtb&lang=en

Dragec

Most efficient is not always the easiest one, nor the most educational one.

I remain at my opinion that eebster's diagram is more educational and easier to learn Wink

you can stay with your opinion too. Peace Cool

theamericanplaya

Neither one is absolutely wrong. It just depends on the person being taught's capacity for learning. If they were a sponge, I'd teach the three move mate and why it works. If they were Foot in mouth, I'd show them a longer, though not by a long shot 39 move, mate so they can see clearer. By the way, a GM's book is not always easy to understand as a beginner, even the ones "for beginners". I prefer yeres's way, but eebster's isn't technically wrong either

Grumly06

See how losing a tempo is crucial in the King+Rook versus King endgame here:

http://chesstrainerapp.blogspot.fr/2013/12/how-to-checkmatewith-king-and-rook.html

(my latest blog post)