Best beginner defences in e4 e5

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1Lindamea1

So, what is the easiest way for a new player to pass the opening stage as black in e4 e5?

What's best in the italian: giuoco piano, hungarian, paris, anti fried liver, two knights?

What's best in the spanish: Morphy, berlin, old steinitz?

What's best in the scotch game/gambit: schmidt/classical; haxo/dubo-reti?

What's best against the spanish and scotch four knights? 

What's best against the ponziani?

KeSetoKaiba

You are already over 1400 chess.com rapid rating, so I would imagine you already know there there is no "best" opening and you should similarly know that the "easiest" isn't always the better ideas.

I played e4 e5 with black for years (switched repertoire about a year ago) and there is so much variety there, so it really depends on what kinds of positions you like and your playstyle.

1Lindamea1
KeSetoKaiba написал:

You are already over 1400 chess.com rapid rating, so I would imagine you already know there there is no "best" opening and you should similarly know that the "easiest" isn't always the better ideas.

I played e4 e5 with black for years (switched repertoire about a year ago) and there is so much variety there, so it really depends on what kinds of positions you like and your playstyle.

Yeah, by "easiest" I meant "What is the most efficient(theory-middlegame playability)?" variation against each of white's openings. I think that a lot of beginners would have higher ratings if they weren't constantly falling for fried livers or blundering the e5 pawn in the ruy.

KeSetoKaiba

The "most efficient" opening depends on the player because each player has their own playstyle, chess personality, strengths, weaknesses, comfort levels and so on. Of course a chess player should play the needs of the position and try to play the best moves, but sometimes moves are similarly good (or similarly bad) and that is where these preferences come into play; by playing to your strengths and preferences, you'll minimize the chance of you blundering (because you are better and more comfortable in those positions).

Memorizing deep opening theory is not that important around the 1400 level, but what is important is to understand the main ideas of each mainline opening (for each side) and to try and navigate the position according to your own plans of what you think is best. If you are "wrong" in your plan for that position, then no big deal; the opening stage of chess is the most forgiving stage of the game. Post-game analysis just helps you not repeat those wrong plans in future games.

I wouldn't mind helping you with e4 e5 opening suggestions, but no one can answer what opening variations would be best for you without knowing your playstyle or preferences etc.

PATRlCKSTAR2
lassus_dinnao wrote:

So, what is the easiest way for a new player to pass the opening stage as black in e4 e5?

What's best in the italian: giuoco piano, hungarian, paris, anti fried liver, two knights?

What's best in the spanish: Morphy, berlin, old steinitz?

What's best in the scotch game/gambit: schmidt/classical; haxo/dubo-reti?

What's best against the spanish and scotch four knights?

What's best against the ponziani?

there is no need to play anti-fried liver, because you have Polerio defense

PineappleBird
lassus_dinnao wrote:

So, what is the easiest way for a new player to pass the opening stage as black in e4 e5?

What's best in the italian: giuoco piano, hungarian, paris, anti fried liver, two knights?

Closed Italian with 4. d3 Bc5 followed by a6... or if they go 4. Ng5; Polerio with d5 exd5 Na5 Bc5 c6 dxc6 bxc6.

What's best in the spanish: Morphy, berlin, old steinitz?

Morphy and try to get a Marshall, also learn some Closed Spanish (any)

What's best in the scotch game/gambit: schmidt/classical; haxo/dubo-reti?

Shmidt.

What's best against the spanish and scotch four knights?

I prefer in Closed Spanish with d3 etc to play weird offbeat thing I saw Dubov and Magnus play with Rb8?! even Bf8... It throws people off. Also I never let the a file open up in the Spanish cuz Alekhine was quoted to say that is good for White.

As for 4 Knights if you mean Spanish Variation of 4 Knights then I just allow the doubling of my c pawns if White voluntarily gives up a bishop so I go 4. Bb5... If 3. Bc4? you should be familiar with the Center Fork trick lines 3.Nxe4 4. Nxe4 d5! or if 4.Bxf2 Kxf2 5.Nxe4 d5

What's best against the ponziani?

3. d5 and just win... and if 3. d5 4. Qa4 I like ...Qd6 with some sharp play potentially.

TheSonics

just take some free chessable course with Black do whatever they say and take it from there..

Like others have said it dosen't matter which opening you choose just choose one and learn it..

Or trust some chessable author to select something for you that theoretically might have some inner logic and overlaps or like a natural feel for arising positions might develop... who knows though

maybe alone is better

idk

magipi
lassus_dinnao wrote:

So, what is the easiest way for a new player to pass the opening stage as black in e4 e5?

If a true beginner asks you this question, the best answer is to show him / her "chess opening principles". That is the only good advice.

On the other hand, the worst answer is to overwhelm the beginner with useless and meaningless information, like you did in the opening post.

1Lindamea1
PineappleBird написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

So, what is the easiest way for a new player to pass the opening stage as black in e4 e5?

What's best in the italian: giuoco piano, hungarian, paris, anti fried liver, two knights?

Closed Italian with 4. d3 Bc5 followed by a6... or if they go 4. Ng5; Polerio with d5 exd5 Na5 Bc5 c6 dxc6 bxc6.

What's best in the spanish: Morphy, berlin, old steinitz?

Morphy and try to get a Marshall, also learn some Closed Spanish (any)

What's best in the scotch game/gambit: schmidt/classical; haxo/dubo-reti?

Shmidt.

What's best against the spanish and scotch four knights?

I prefer in Closed Spanish with d3 etc to play weird offbeat thing I saw Dubov and Magnus play with Rb8?! even Bf8... It throws people off. Also I never let the a file open up in the Spanish cuz Alekhine was quoted to say that is good for White.

As for 4 Knights if you mean Spanish Variation of 4 Knights then I just allow the doubling of my c pawns if White voluntarily gives up a bishop so I go 4. Bb5... If 3. Bc4? you should be familiar with the Center Fork trick lines 3.Nxe4 4. Nxe4 d5! or if 4.Bxf2 Kxf2 5.Nxe4 d5

What's best against the ponziani?

3. d5 and just win... and if 3. d5 4. Qa4 I like ...Qd6 with some sharp play potentially.

This seems like too much theory to be honest. I don't believe that some 600 will sit there and learn the marshall attack. And I think a beginner will 60% blunder in the polerio because of how wild the position is(for a newbie)

1Lindamea1
magipi написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

So, what is the easiest way for a new player to pass the opening stage as black in e4 e5?

If a true beginner asks you this question, the best answer is to show him / her "chess opening principles". That is the only good advice.

On the other hand, the worst answer is to overwhelm the beginner with useless and meaningless information, like you did in the opening post.

Did I? Where?

The problem is that my friend already knows opening principles, but still folds under pressure in all white's openings. I think that a little bit of a theoretical help would be good to make him stop being -2 on the 10th move. I myself recommended the hungarian italian, morphy caro ruy lopez, Bc5 scotches, told about the center fork trick in the four knights and said that if he meets ponziani he should play d5 and make white even more confused than he is. I just wonder if it is the most efficient choice(maybe the berlin was better than morphy, Nf6 with traxler better than hungarian etc.).

PLXMN2
lassus_dinnao wrote:

So, what is the easiest way for a new player to pass the opening stage as black in e4 e5?


What's best in the italian: giuoco piano, hungarian, paris, anti fried liver, two knights?


What's best in the spanish: Morphy, berlin, old steinitz?


What's best in the scotch game/gambit: schmidt/classical; haxo/dubo-reti?


What's best against the spanish and scotch four knights?


What's best against the ponziani?








Best in Italian: two knights
Best in Spanish: Morphy/Berlin
Best in Scotch: I love Haxo but I really don’t know
magipi

There is no reason why any of these lines would be better than all the others. If your friend gets into a losing position by move 10, that's certainly because of tactical mistakes. The opening probably has nothing to do with it.

PineappleBird
lassus_dinnao wrote:
PineappleBird написал:
lassus_dinnao wrote:

So, what is the easiest way for a new player to pass the opening stage as black in e4 e5?

What's best in the italian: giuoco piano, hungarian, paris, anti fried liver, two knights?

Closed Italian with 4. d3 Bc5 followed by a6... or if they go 4. Ng5; Polerio with d5 exd5 Na5 Bc5 c6 dxc6 bxc6.

What's best in the spanish: Morphy, berlin, old steinitz?

Morphy and try to get a Marshall, also learn some Closed Spanish (any)

What's best in the scotch game/gambit: schmidt/classical; haxo/dubo-reti?

Shmidt.

What's best against the spanish and scotch four knights?

I prefer in Closed Spanish with d3 etc to play weird offbeat thing I saw Dubov and Magnus play with Rb8?! even Bf8... It throws people off. Also I never let the a file open up in the Spanish cuz Alekhine was quoted to say that is good for White.

As for 4 Knights if you mean Spanish Variation of 4 Knights then I just allow the doubling of my c pawns if White voluntarily gives up a bishop so I go 4. Bb5... If 3. Bc4? you should be familiar with the Center Fork trick lines 3.Nxe4 4. Nxe4 d5! or if 4.Bxf2 Kxf2 5.Nxe4 d5

What's best against the ponziani?

3. d5 and just win... and if 3. d5 4. Qa4 I like ...Qd6 with some sharp play potentially.

This seems like too much theory to be honest. I don't believe that some 600 will sit there and learn the marshall attack. And I think a beginner will 60% blunder in the polerio because of how wild the position is(for a newbie)

I didn't realize you were asking for someone else, I thought for you. We are both considered beginners btw...

Other than that like others have said no opening is better than another... You just have to study openings wisely, not focus on in too much but understand the middle games that arise from your openings. I would tell this to your friend too. It's not "which openig" it's "the opening phase of the game"... I think it's slightly wrong people say openings are not important at all... If you have a good confidence in your opening it can help in classical games because you can really stop to think and calculate the moment you leave book and possibly be guided by the fact you know you should be able to get a solid advantage out of the opening if you play accurately... (the fact it's backed by prepared lines is comforting)