Draw due to timeout vs insufficient mating material

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Fireonnayse

Hello,

I am a tad confused about the conditions for the type of draw in the title and the outcomes of the following matches.

I played a match and got said draw in the following state when the opponent (white) ran out of time:

And today, I played the match which ended in the following state when I (white) ran out of time; but it counted as a win for the opponent:

What is the difference between these two matches?

In the first scenario, I didn't have enough capturing material, but it looks like my opponent could have had the upper hand.

In the second scenario, both pawns were blocked and we were stuck in a perpetual chase.

I don't get why the first case is a draw but the second case is a loss for me; if anything it feels like it should be the opposite way around. I did read the clarifications about that kind of draw, but I can't really understand the full implications of it, nor apply it fully to these cases.

Thank you if you can break it down for me, as I just started playing and can't fully grasp the differences.

Martin_Stahl

In the first one, you only had a king and bishop. The site only looks at the material the side with time has, for most cases) and that material can't mate in it's own.

 

In the second position, the side with time also has a pawn, which is considered sufficient material, since it could potentially promote.

tygxc

@1
Laws of Chess:
'6.9      
Except where one of Articles 5.1.1, 5.1.2, 5.2.1, 5.2.2, 5.2.3 applies, if a player does not complete the prescribed number of moves in the allotted time, the game is lost by that player.
However, the game is drawn if the position is such that the opponent cannot checkmate the player’s king by any possible series of legal moves.'
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018 

++ So both positions win on time-out.

In the first position a series of legal moves exists where black checkmates the white king in a light-square corner, hindered by his own bishop or knight. The site implements this wrongly.

In the second position a series of legal moves exists where the black captures the white pawn, the black pawn promotes and checkmates the white king.

To avoid this, play with increment.

Fireonnayse

Ah, I see now, thanks to both of you.

Just a note; what do you mean by "play with increment"?

tygxc

@4

'increment: 6.1. An amount of time (from 2 to 60 seconds) added from the start before each move for the player. This can be in either delay or cumulative mode.'
https://handbook.fide.com/chapter/E012018 

LopatiCZka94
Uživatel Fireonnayse napsal:

Ah, I see now, thanks to both of you.

Just a note; what do you mean by "play with increment"?

Unlike with a fixed timer, increment adds time to your clock after every move. When selecting clock for a game, it's noted with a vertical bar. For example: 15|10 means 15 minutes on clock and bonus 10 seconds after each move.

Fireonnayse
LopatiCZka94 wrote:

Unlike with a fixed timer, increment adds time to your clock after every move. When selecting clock for a game, it's noted with a vertical bar. For example: 15|10 means 15 minutes on clock and bonus 10 seconds after each move.


Oh, there it is! Thank you!

tygxc

@6
It should be 'before each move' not 'after every move'.

LopatiCZka94
Uživatel tygxc napsal:

@6
It should be 'before each move' not 'after every move'.

Well, as stated by FIDE handbook you posted, yeah. However, the concept itself is ambigous enough to make "after" just as right for casual explanation, we're not resolving some high-key tournament issue. If increment was added before 2nd move, at the same time it must have happened after 1st move.