How to react to Black Pawns Triangle defense

Hi all,

I am a newbie in chess.com as reported in other threads. I studied a few openings/defenses very basic and played with people around 0-500 rate I noticed some openings/defenses I wasn't aware of. One was Wayward Queen attack that was already discussed in two threads:

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/for-beginners/how-to-protect-from-queen-move

https://www.chess.com/forum/view/for-beginners/wayward-queen

Now please don't add comments here related to this opening. Another strange Black defense was when I am White and Black start to defend using a strange Pawns Triangles like this:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/30494370735
https://www.chess.com/game/live/30305952817

https://www.chess.com/game/live/29508579067

My questions are:

1) Is it correct in Chess says that White always do an "Opening" and a Black always a "defense"? I ask this because sometimes I read "Black opening". What is the right terminology?

2) What is the name of this defense?

3) How to react to this defense? I found it very hard to destroy that triangle wall that don't allow me to advance.

4) What is the difference when this triangle has the vertex in front of the King and in front of the Queen?

Hm, sir I think you understand something wrong. White just does the first move. Both white and black are making attacks and defences. Both black and white make openings to place their pieces strategically on the board. When they say "black opening" they mean a way to develop your pieces that works better with black. For example you can do the "2 move checkmate" only with black.

Now for the pawn triangles.... I mean ok they are nothing special. You can pass them with an opposite color bishop or destroy them by attacking the back pawns

Ok, thank you. Terminology is clear, some doubts on how to defend. I understand your suggestions and based on them I see different options:

1. Ab5 attacking the king;

2. Ac4 attacking  the knight;

3. Nb5 and then Nxc7 attacking the back pawn on the left.

In that game, accidentally, I played 2 but I am not sure it was the right choice. However, what I would like to understand is what could be a set of possible moves (not the exact move but the principle) to exit from this opening phase with a clear advantage.

i don't understand why you give away a knight for free in the opening. Like taking a pawn that is defended by a pawn with your knight, just giving away a knight for a pawn. I think you just simply have to be more patience. Dont give away your pieces for free or for a pawn for little reason.

Because I am a bad player :-)

You're right, I need to improve this. In my first games, I didn't protect my pieces, I give pieces for free. Then I followed the lessons on chess.com and I understand the importance of not giving pieces for free. It requires patience and a good understanding of alternatives.  Now I am aware of this problem but I still make mistakes. I'm trying to improve and your suggestions are precious to me.

Thank you again.

PS

However, FYI looking at the game review my Knight move is considered a Brilliant Move. This is funny. I don't think Chess.com game review is always right, but probably there is something I am not able to see.

1) Is it correct in Chess says that White always do an "Opening" and a Black always a "defense"?
+ Yes, White plays Ruy Lopez Opening, Italian Opening, Black plays Sicilian Defence, French Defence, Nimzovich Indidian Defence, King's Indian Defence etc. It is just a convention.

2) What is the name of this defense?
For the names: first is Damiano Defence, second is Philidor, third is French/Caro-Kann Hybrid. The names do not matter. The moves are no good.

3) How to react to this defense?
1st game 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 f6? 3 Nxe5!
2nd game 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 f6? 4 Bc4 and all white squares on the black camp are weak
3rd game 1 e4 e6 2 d4 d5 3 Nc3 c6? 4 Bd3 with a big lead in development

4) What is the difference when this triangle has the vertex in front of the King and in front of the Queen?
c6-d5-e6 is not as weak as d6-e5-f6
c6 blocks the natural move Nc6, e6 blocks the diagonal of Bc8
d6 blocks the natural move Nf6, d6 blocks the diagonal of Bf8, f6 also weakens the white squares e6 and g6; the black king is unsafe

tygxc thank you for the reply. As for the Queen Wayward attack, I will study the movement you suggested to understand the principles. Thank you again to everyone for your reply.

Sure. It will take time. Rome wasn't built in a day :-)

Sorry i didnt mean to sound harsh. Do you mean brilliant when you traded the knight for the queen because that was good. 

Yeah i believe key is to try not give away for free. And that is hard. I do it to alot. And if i play faster game it gets worse. 

I dont really know name of openings but i try to play similair each game so i learn the opening. And if you play the same over and over and use the engine after each game you will soon pick up the correct moves. 

Jimmy it's ok, no problem. I totally agree with your approach. My short term goal is to reach 500, at this level it is clear to me that study 30-40% theory using chess.com lessons and play with human and bots is a good mix. I noticed solving problems help a lot. It's not important know a lot of opening at this level, very few basic are enough. The end game is critical I won several game because opponent wasn't able to close a game. I remember a person that needed 3 queens to checkmate my single king.

What he means is that cute pawn formations are not worth thinking about. Moreover, openings are also not worth thinking about. The only important thing is to not hang pieces (let the opponent take them for free), and conversely, you should take pieces when the opponents hang them.

I checked your first game that you linked, and you made several blunders that are blunders even at the beginner level. Move 9, you give up a knight for nothing. Move 19, you hang a bishop. Move 22, you hang a rook.

Until you stop doing those things, nothing else matters.

Hi magipi,

Thank you for spending some of your time analyzing my first game. You're totally right. I am at a level where stopping doing these mistakes is not easy. I'll try to avoid it. In some games, I am more precise (precision about 70%) in others I am really bad (almost 40%). I'll try to improve.

Good luck!

Watch John Bartholomew's old climbing the ratings ladder videos for your level and the one above. Watch them again. And again. He's very good at explaining the base skills and the 'how to' of principles for beginners. If you can enact what he says you'll improve out of sight. 

You already got advice the answered your question, so I'd just add that...

Be patient. Solid openings can become chaotic (with many winning chances) later. Don't try to force a chess game to be "interesting" during the first 10 moves.

Also be patient in the sense that bad openings often don't destroy a player's position immediately. Punishment comes later, in the middlegame.

So challenge yourself to follow the opening principles closely (fast development, pawn presence in the center, and a safe king). If you do that (and look for tactical opportunities) you'll discover many winning chances, no special opening study needed.

And by "challenge yourself" I mean sometimes try uncomfortable moves. For example, a lot of new players like to play moves like h3 or a3 because it's comfortable. Or they move the same piece a few times in a row to create threats, because creating threats is comfortable. Unless you've been busy capturing pieces that your opponent gave away, if you haven't completed development by move 12 or so, then you should probably challenge yourself more.

Thank you, everyone. Blueemi I see this game on Internet as a defense. Quite complicated but it's clear. However, I have a doubt. On the Internet, a classical Damiano defense is: e4, e5, Nf3, f6 ... and then not necessarily the d6 of my opponent  like in this game:

https://www.chess.com/game/live/30494370735

Considering this small difference we can still talk about Damiano's defense? I ask this just to understand if I really need to focus on Damiano's defense to neutralize this recurring defense I noticed during my game.

#19
After 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 f6? 3 Nxe5 white just smashes through and black has not even time to play ...d6. The move order 1 e4 e5 2 Nf3 d6 3 d4 f6? 4 Bc4 is just bad for black as all white squares are weak and the black king is unsafe.

#1 is Wrong!  Not everything White plays is an "Opening".  In fact, the name is driven by which side makes the final deciding move of what opening it is whether it is an Opening, Defense, SYSTEM, ATTACK, GAMBIT, etc.

So NO!  Not everything White plays is an opening and everything Black plays is a defense.  Simply WRONG!

Case in point!

A)  1.e4 (This does not define any opening or attack) e6 (This defines the Opening and is hence a DEFENSE, namely the FRENCH DEFENSE

B)  1.d4 (Undefined) Nf6 (Still undefined) 2.Nf3 (still undefined) e6 (Still undefined) and now:

3.Bg5 is the Torre ATTACK

3.Bf4 is the London SYSTEM

3.e3 is the Colle SYSTEM

C) 1.e4 (undefined) e5 (undefined) 2.Nf3 (undefined) Nc6 (undefined - 2...Nf6 would be the Russian DEFENSE) 3.Bb5 is the Spanish OPENING

D) 1.e4 e5 2.f4 is the King's GAMBIT

E) 1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 f5 is the Latvian GAMBIT!

So notice that the name is defined by who makes the DEFINING move of the opening.

If it is defined by White's move, It can be an Opening, Attack, System, Gambit, or have no suffix (the Catalan is simply, "The Catalan")

If it is defined by Black's move, it can be a Defense or a Gambit.

As far as #4 is concerned, How strong or weak c6-d5-e6 is depends on what White has played.

1.d4 d5 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 c6 is actually known as The Triangle.  It is an offshoot of the Semi-Slav with the flexibility of still playing the Stonewall Dutch if 4.e3 (Black can also still play the Semi-Slav with 4...Nf6), and the Noteboom (4...dxc4) against 4.Nc3.

Outside of this, all of those Triangle responses are Garbage except the Fantasy Variation of the Caro-Kann (1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.f3 e6).

Case in point:

1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 c6 - Why?  Your d5-point is secure given White's advance of e5.  3...c6 is an utter waste of time.  Black should hit White's center immediately with 3...c5 or look to trade Bishops with 3...b6.  3...c6 is just idiotic and Bad for Black.

1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 d6 3.d4 f6 - As mentioned, this severely weakens the light squares, but it also serves no purpose as it simply takes over the square that the Knight belongs on.

The thing the OP needs to do is stop looking at the shape that the pieces make, and instead look for squares that are in White's control, squares that are in Black's control, and weaknesses.

Example:  1.e4 e6 2.d4 d5 3.Nc3 Nf6 4.Bg5 Be7 5.e5 Nfd7 6.Bxe7 Qxe7 7.f4 O-O 8.Nf3 c5.

The e5 square is completely in WHITE'S control right now.

The e4 square, while not occupied, is completely in BLACK'S control right now.

Black can attack e5 with ...f6 while White can attack e4 with f3.  Therefore, while these squares are each controlled currently by one side, they are not weaknesses.

However, with Black having pushed e6, d5, and c5, and the dark squared Bishops traded off, the d6-Square for Black is a WEAKNESS.  Black must use other means to fight this square, like play ...a6 and maintain the pawn on d5 to not let a knight in.  If a Knight does get in, undermine e5 (Attack what protects the knight on d6.)

What the OP needs is a book on Strategy, not Openings.