How to read a crosstable: looking for a FAQ

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TimmyCorkery

I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to for getting more information out of crosstables. Since a lot of where I've been looking is in the member services area of uschess.org, an area dense with information that is presented in a necessarily codified format, I'm also looking for a FAQ or how-to for reading that. 

There a lot of veteran players reading this forum. I'm hoping maybe one of you can help me out? Thanks.

justbefair
TimmyCorkery wrote:

I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to for getting more information out of crosstables. Since a lot of where I've been looking is in the member services area of uschess.org, an area dense with information that is presented in a necessarily codified format, I'm also looking for a FAQ or how-to for reading that. 

There a lot of veteran players reading this forum. I'm hoping maybe one of you can help me out? Thanks.

I see you haven't played in any rated events yet.

Here is a screenshot from a recent tournament:

I see a link to a Frequent questions page: http://www.uschess.org/msa/FAQ.php

 

TimmyCorkery
justbefair wrote:
TimmyCorkery wrote:

I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to for getting more information out of crosstables. Since a lot of where I've been looking is in the member services area of uschess.org, an area dense with information that is presented in a necessarily codified format, I'm also looking for a FAQ or how-to for reading that. 

There a lot of veteran players reading this forum. I'm hoping maybe one of you can help me out? Thanks.

Perhaps you could post an example that you find confusing.

I mean no offense since I know you're trying to be helpful, but this is why I posted here in the For Beginners forum and stopped pursuing the question in the USChess - Members Only forum. I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to or a legend because I just want to be able to read and understand the information independently. Having to repeatedly consult public forums to get my questions answered (or not) onesie-twosie has lost its appeal. Answering "is there a FAQ" with "what do you want to know," doesn't answer my question and it's essentially the only answer I've gotten so far. I'm looking for a yes or a no.

If there is a FAQ or how-to, it would be great if someone could give me a link. If there isn't a FAQ or a how-to, well, that's a bummer but I'll have to live with the answer. 

Sorry for being prickly, but this is by no means my first attempt at finding this information, and I'm getting worn out with the effort of just getting a yes or a no. Again, I know you're trying to help, so I apologize if I come off brusque.

justbefair
TimmyCorkery wrote:
justbefair wrote:
TimmyCorkery wrote:

I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to for getting more information out of crosstables. Since a lot of where I've been looking is in the member services area of uschess.org, an area dense with information that is presented in a necessarily codified format, I'm also looking for a FAQ or how-to for reading that. 

There a lot of veteran players reading this forum. I'm hoping maybe one of you can help me out? Thanks.

Perhaps you could post an example that you find confusing.

I mean no offense since I know you're trying to be helpful, but this is why I posted here in the For Beginners forum and stopped pursuing the question in the USChess - Members Only forum. I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to or a legend because I just want to be able to read and understand the information independently. Having to repeatedly consult public forums to get my questions answered (or not) onesie-twosie has lost its appeal. Answering "is there a FAQ" with "what do you want to know," doesn't answer my question and it's essentially the only answer I've gotten so far. I'm looking for a yes or a no.

If there is a FAQ or how-to, it would be great if someone could give me a link. If there isn't a FAQ or a how-to, well, that's a bummer but I'll have to live with the answer. 

Sorry for being prickly, but this is by no means my first attempt at finding this information, and I'm getting worn out with the effort of just getting a yes or a no. Again, I know you're trying to help, so I apologize if I come off brusque.

At first, I thought you might be having difficulty reading the Cross-Table for an event you had played in. That's why I asked you to post an example.

After that, a search showed me that you had not played in any rated events .

So I found a recent crosstable and posted it.

And I posted a link to the FAQ.

/ If you had said that you had already found the FAQ on the USCF site, and had already posted several questions in the USCF Members Only Club forum, we could have saved some time. I thought Martin Stahl's answers were quite helpful.   For that matter, I thought the USCF FAQ was pretty helpful too.

 

 

TimmyCorkery
justbefair wrote:
TimmyCorkery wrote:
justbefair wrote:
TimmyCorkery wrote:

I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to for getting more information out of crosstables. Since a lot of where I've been looking is in the member services area of uschess.org, an area dense with information that is presented in a necessarily codified format, I'm also looking for a FAQ or how-to for reading that. 

There a lot of veteran players reading this forum. I'm hoping maybe one of you can help me out? Thanks.

Perhaps you could post an example that you find confusing.

I mean no offense since I know you're trying to be helpful, but this is why I posted here in the For Beginners forum and stopped pursuing the question in the USChess - Members Only forum. I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to or a legend because I just want to be able to read and understand the information independently. Having to repeatedly consult public forums to get my questions answered (or not) onesie-twosie has lost its appeal. Answering "is there a FAQ" with "what do you want to know," doesn't answer my question and it's essentially the only answer I've gotten so far. I'm looking for a yes or a no.

If there is a FAQ or how-to, it would be great if someone could give me a link. If there isn't a FAQ or a how-to, well, that's a bummer but I'll have to live with the answer. 

Sorry for being prickly, but this is by no means my first attempt at finding this information, and I'm getting worn out with the effort of just getting a yes or a no. Again, I know you're trying to help, so I apologize if I come off brusque.

At first, I thought you might be having difficulty reading the Cross-Table for an event you had played in. That's why I asked you to post an example.

After that, a search showed me that you had not played in any rated events .

So I found a recent crosstable and posted it.

And I posted a link to the FAQ.

 

 

Hm, now who's prickly? Yup, you sure did post that link, but only after you'd edited your response. Your original response is quoted in my reply. Again, "is there a resource" being answered with "what do you want to know" instead of "yes there is a resource" or "no there isn't" makes the inquirer feel like they've asked the wrong question or asked it in the wrong forum. Meeting with that kind of gatekeeping in the Members Only forum made me come here with higher hopes, y'know, being a beginner and asking in the For Beginners forum. 

Regarding the link you posted, thank you, but I've already consulted that document and come up mostly empty. From my attempt to find an answer in the Members Only forum that I linked in my response: "I've read the FAQ top to bottom and have found a few answers, but quite a lot of it is still completely opaque. Is there no legend available? No how-to-read primer? Thanks.

I've been pursuing this since I joined chess.com and all I've gotten for my efforts is frustration. I'm going to assume the answer is no, that no resource exists beyond that link, and stop pursuing this. I can't believe I thought buying a membership would get me better results...

TimmyCorkery
justbefair wrote:
TimmyCorkery wrote:
justbefair wrote:
TimmyCorkery wrote:

I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to for getting more information out of crosstables. Since a lot of where I've been looking is in the member services area of uschess.org, an area dense with information that is presented in a necessarily codified format, I'm also looking for a FAQ or how-to for reading that. 

There a lot of veteran players reading this forum. I'm hoping maybe one of you can help me out? Thanks.

Perhaps you could post an example that you find confusing.

I mean no offense since I know you're trying to be helpful, but this is why I posted here in the For Beginners forum and stopped pursuing the question in the USChess - Members Only forum. I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to or a legend because I just want to be able to read and understand the information independently. Having to repeatedly consult public forums to get my questions answered (or not) onesie-twosie has lost its appeal. Answering "is there a FAQ" with "what do you want to know," doesn't answer my question and it's essentially the only answer I've gotten so far. I'm looking for a yes or a no.

If there is a FAQ or how-to, it would be great if someone could give me a link. If there isn't a FAQ or a how-to, well, that's a bummer but I'll have to live with the answer. 

Sorry for being prickly, but this is by no means my first attempt at finding this information, and I'm getting worn out with the effort of just getting a yes or a no. Again, I know you're trying to help, so I apologize if I come off brusque.

At first, I thought you might be having difficulty reading the Cross-Table for an event you had played in. That's why I asked you to post an example.

After that, a search showed me that you had not played in any rated events .

So I found a recent crosstable and posted it.

And I posted a link to the FAQ.

/ If you had said that you had already found the FAQ on the USCF site, and had already posted several questions in the USCF Members Only Club forum, we could have saved some time. I thought Martin Stahl's answers were quite helpful.   For that matter, I thought the USCF FAQ was pretty helpful too.

Wait -- you're going to put this on me while not even having the courtesy to answer inline?! If you hadn't edited your response before mine could come in, you would have know that I had already looked at the FAQ and had already posted questions in the Members Only forum. You're seriously going to creatively edit your responses to a beginner and then tell that beginner that he's asking his questions wrong? 

If Martin had answered my question, I wouldn't have come here to ask the same question. If the FAQ had answered my questions, I wouldn't still be looking for a FAQ. The fact that a site moderator who still hasn't answered my question is blaming me for not getting my questions answered is despicable. "Just be fair," indeed.

magipi

I honestly don't get why you are asking in the chess.com forums. The problem is with the US chess federation's crosstable, so why don't you ask there, on their forums?

That said, most stuff in the linked image are easy to figure out. (Except stuff like "K factor: F", but I doubt that it is important). I don't really know where you need help.

TimmyCorkery
magipi wrote:

I honestly don't get why you are asking in the chess.com forums. The problem is with the US chess federation's crosstable, so why don't you ask there, on their forums?

That said, most stuff in the linked image are easy to figure out. (Except stuff like "K factor: F", but I doubt that it is important). I don't really know where you need help.

Where I need help is finding a FAQ or how-to or legend. As I note in my original post: I'm looking for a FAQ or a how-to for getting more information out of crosstables. Since a lot of where I've been looking is in the member services area of uschess.org, an area dense with information that is presented in a necessarily codified format, I'm also looking for a FAQ or how-to for reading that. 

Do you have a link to a FAQ or a how-to or a legend? Thank you.

magipi

You have already found the FAQ of the US Chess Fed, and it lacks the info you are looking for, doesn't it? What are the chances that they have another FAQ? Exactly zero.

If there was a legend for the crosstable itself, it should be next to the crosstable, but apparently it isn't. Again, I have no idea what you are hoping for.

TimmyCorkery
magipi wrote:

You have already found the FAQ of the US Chess Fed, and it lacks the info you are looking for, doesn't it? What are the chances that they have another FAQ? Exactly zero.

If there was a legend for the crosstable itself, it should be next to the crosstable, but apparently it isn't. Again, I have no idea what you are hoping for.

I feel I've made myself perfectly clear: I am hoping for someone to help me find a FAQ or a how-to or a legend that I haven't been able to find myself. Do you have a link to a FAQ or a how-to or a legend that I haven't been able to find? 

Let's review: I asked for help because I want to understand something. You told me it's easy ("most stuff in the linked image are easy to figure out.") and didn't help me. In a separate thread, as an illustration of information I couldn't find or interpret, I wanted to know what K-Factor is. You told me that it isn't important ("Except stuff like "K factor: F", but I doubt that it is important") and didn't help me.

I'm a beginner. I don't know things so I ask for help. The result? People keep telling me I'm asking my question wrong, or want to know the wrong things, or that I don't need to know something about which I'm curious. If you can't help, why respond in a way that makes me feel badly? Why is this forum so full of high-rated players who are so intent on making low-rated players feel badly? I'm just trying to find information. Why are you being mean to me for asking questions?

justbefair

No one is being mean to you.

Most people answering the forum are volunteers.  We are trying to be helpful.

When I answered your question, I spent more than 20 minutes looking for more info. When I find more info, I append or revise my answers.

When I posted the tournament Cross-Table and link to the FAQ, I thought it would be helpful.

Your persistence in ascribing bad motivation to any of the answers is very frustrating.  I have known the other moderator through the forums for at least ten years and he is consistently lauded for his helpfulness.

 

 

 

 

magipi

I've just checked the other forum here, and Martin_Stahl has already answered everything, up to and including the mysterious K-factor.

3 days ago.

https://www.chess.com/clubs/forum/view/uscf-crosstable