Caro-Kann sometimes seems to make it difficult to develop my knights

Sort:
bazoo123

(I see I can't correct the spelling error in my title, oh well!)

Caro kann seems to make it difficult to develop my knights

https://www.chess.com/game/live/6297126533

(I know I shouldn't have moved my f7 pawn, but I was getting frustrated not being able to move that left hand knight to a good spot

And the right hand knight , the B knight,  could only develop to a bad spot, the far edge. Or, to D7, but D7 isn't that useful because moving off from there, he can be attacked by the D4 pawn. And I could get the B knight to B6 but that would be moving him twice which you aren't conventionally meant to do early on in the game.   My knights seem very restricted!

But I have had a lot of other games where it works out really well and doesn't restrict me at all https://www.chess.com/live/game/6274416457  

Title corrected. 
chanceloveandlogic_moderator

 

Coach_Kashchei

After you put you bishop on e6 ( ... 3. Be6?), indeed, it's hard to develop king side. But why you put your light-square bishop on such an ugly square?

king5minblitz119147

when you have less space it will be difficult to develop knights, regardless of the opening. that said, if you want to keep playing the caro kann you need to see games about how strong players deal with the knight development problem. putting the bishop on e6 is an error in itself but even if you played bf5 you would still have less space and not so many great squares for both your knights.  i personally think the caro kann is a bit too difficult for now. playing the open games with 1..e5 is easier. you rarely give up space or end up cramped here. development is pretty straightforward too.

 

catmaster0
bazoo123 wrote:

(I see I can't correct the spelling error in my title, oh well!)

Caro kann seems to make it difficult to develop my knights

https://www.chess.com/game/live/6297126533

(I know I shouldn't have moved my f7 pawn, but I was getting frustrated not being able to move that left hand knight to a good spot

And the right hand knight , the B knight,  could only develop to a bad spot, the far edge. Or, to D7, but D7 isn't that useful because moving off from there, he can be attacked by the D4 pawn. And I could get the B knight to B6 but that would be moving him twice which you aren't conventionally meant to do early on in the game.   My knights seem very restricted!

But I have had a lot of other games where it works out really well and doesn't restrict me at all https://www.chess.com/live/game/6274416457  

Well, in that first game you fell for an easily blockable mate in 1, so that didn't help. Anyways, your fourth move in the Caro-Kann in the advance is not good. You should bring out your light-squared bishop to f5, not e6. On f5 you can move your own pawn to e6 and open up space for your light-squared bishop next while still holding up the center. That also gives you the e7 square for your knight if you needed one. 

bazoo123
catmaster0 wrote:

...

 your fourth move in the Caro-Kann in the advance is not good. You should bring out your light-squared bishop to f5, not e6. On f5 you can move your own pawn to e6 and open up space for your light-squared bishop next while still holding up the center. That also gives you the e7 square for your knight if you needed one. 

 

My fourth move h6 blocked him from moving his knight to g5.. Though granted maybe there is a better move.

My light squared bishop was already moved out on the third move.  You say I should move it to f5 not e6.   So then I can do e6., freeing up e7.

Well, ok so my G knight can then go to e7 which I guess might be better than leaving it at the starting square.  But what about my B knight. Is that meant to go to be developed to D7?   I can't see much it can do from there,  Half or more of the places it can move to involve it getting killed by an oppoent's pawn.   

 

JackRoach

You can correct the error. Just click edit forum topic.

catmaster0
bazoo123 wrote:
catmaster0 wrote:

...

 your fourth move in the Caro-Kann in the advance is not good. You should bring out your light-squared bishop to f5, not e6. On f5 you can move your own pawn to e6 and open up space for your light-squared bishop next while still holding up the center. That also gives you the e7 square for your knight if you needed one. 

 

My fourth move h6 blocked him from moving his knight to g5.. Though granted maybe there is a better move.

My light squared bishop was already moved out on the third move.  You say I should move it to f5 not e6.   So then I can do e6., freeing up e7.

Well, ok so my G knight can then go to e7 which I guess might be better than leaving it at the starting square.  But what about my B knight. Is that meant to go to be developed to D7?   I can't see much it can do from there,  Half or more of the places it can move to involve it getting killed by an oppoent's pawn.   

My bad, meant third move, not fourth, lol. The bishop move was what I was focused on.

https://www.365chess.com/opening.php This is one opening database you can use. Look for opening options with enough games to be a reliable sample size and find the option you think works best. What I posted was only one option, there are others. 

Some pieces might have to wait to find their best square, see what moves are made beforehand before realizing this is where they need to be in this boardstate. That will take time to figure out. 

JamieDelarosa

"Caro-Kann - it's all pawns and no hope" - Benny Watts

Laskersnephew

As other people have pointed out, your problems began with 3.Be6. It's generally a poor idea to block your center pawns with your pieces. As you yourself pointed out, after Bf5 you could have played e6 and Nge7. And What about your Nb8? You could move it to d7. Why is that good? Because you want very much to play c5! undermining the white center. And your N on d7 supports that push. 

I don't want to sound condescending, but as a newer player, you might think about meeting 1.e4 with 1...e5 and 1.d4 with 1...d5 until you have more experience.

bazoo123
catmaster0 wrote:
...

 

Thanks.. I see from the board you posted, that knights to E7 and D7  can always be available as an option for knight development with the the Caro Khan. (so long as done right so not blocking the king pawn with my light squared bishop)

I'll consider  1. e4 e5  as black(instead of the caro khan)..  though doing 1. e4 e5  as black, I feel like i'm a step behind my opponent. 

nTzT
JamieDelarosa wrote:

"Caro-Kann - it's all pawns and no hope" - Benny Watts

Yeah all the world class players playing it should just listen to some fictional character and drop the Caro

nTzT

Do this with your other Knight. Go for this setup, push c5 and place your Knight on c6. From this position you have a lot of options.

bazoo123
nTzT wrote:

Do this with your other Knight. Go for this setup, push c5 and place your Knight on c6. From this position you have a lot of options.

OK that frees up c6 by advancing the pawn there pushing the pawn on c6 up to c5. (5..c5)

Though re white's response, what if instead of 6. c3, white does 6. dxc5

White takes my pawn, I can't immediately take it back.. White does weaken his pawn structure a bit by doing that,  It's not entirely clear t ome how good/bad it'd be for me/him if he does 6 dxc5  But the reason why I probably hadn't placed that 6. c6 move is because he could just take my pawn.

catmaster0
bazoo123 wrote:
nTzT wrote:

Do this with your other Knight. Go for this setup, push c5 and place your Knight on c6. From this position you have a lot of options.

OK that frees up c6 by advancing the pawn there pushing the pawn on c6 up to c5. (5..c5)

Though re white's response, what if instead of 6. c3, white does 6. dxc5

White takes my pawn, I can't immediately take it back.. White does weaken his pawn structure a bit by doing that,  It's not entirely clear t ome how good/bad it'd be for me/him if he does 6 dxc5  But the reason why I probably hadn't placed that 6. c6 move is because he could just take my pawn.

You are overlooking that your dark-squared bishop guards that square.
 



bazoo123
catmaster0 wrote:  "You are overlooking that your dark-squared bishop guards that square"
---
Ah Thanks I see and that board you showed, shows that, Thanks.
nTzT
bazoo123 wrote:
nTzT wrote:

Do this with your other Knight. Go for this setup, push c5 and place your Knight on c6. From this position you have a lot of options.

OK that frees up c6 by advancing the pawn there pushing the pawn on c6 up to c5. (5..c5)

Though re white's response, what if instead of 6. c3, white does 6. dxc5

White takes my pawn, I can't immediately take it back.. White does weaken his pawn structure a bit by doing that,  It's not entirely clear t ome how good/bad it'd be for me/him if he does 6 dxc5  But the reason why I probably hadn't placed that 6. c6 move is because he could just take my pawn.


If he takes he is trolling, he helps you develop your bishop and he concedes his control over c5 and now his e5 pawn is also a major weakness that can easily be exploited with Nc6 and Ne7>Ng6 and so on. 

nTzT

In the advanced variation, try to play c5 early and focus your attention on his d4 pawn. If he makes a mistake and doesn't protect it efficiently you can take it. You can delay taking with the c pawn for a move or two but usually you take his d pawn with your c pawn when you want to develop your g-knight, since if you play Ne7 it blocks your bishop.


Quts

except when white makes it a blunders always

Quts

err always play Bf5 and you will simplify your life

1Na3-10

tutorial, based on FCO by P. Sterren