Opening for Black Pieces

Hey people, I've been playing Chess for the last couple of weeks trying to improve, i'm rated I think about 450 and im trying to set achievable goals. I play The Italian game as white and have tried Sicillian and Scandaniavian as black, but cant find an opening that works for me as black. I run into trouble with my black openings when people play d4 instead of e4. I'm not sure what to do, is there a way I can navigate this issue with sicillian or scandinavian openings or do I just need to learn an alternate opening for d4 openings. Thanks for the help

I'll add this as well. I've never really understood can you play the same openings for white and black, is that recommended? Like any of the openings I mentioned above as the other colour? 

Send me a message I can help you out.

The Italian is a good opening for white, and the Sicilian Defense is good for black against 1.e4. The Scandanavian Defense is not that good of an opening, but can be played at your level. The Scandinavian is also a defense against e4, and not d4. You would need to find an opening against d4. Your opening choice at your level is not that important, and you can honestly just play d4, and then follow the opening principles, tactics, and not dropping pieces, and you would be fine. Tactics and opening principles is what you should be focusing on at your level. Players below 1000 don't follow the book openings very well if at all, and are usually out of book by move 3 or 4. They also probably don't understand very well the purpose of all the moves beyond the first two or three also. I would not recommend modern or hyper-modern openings at your level. They can be very good openings for black, but someone sub 1200 will not play them very well, and will lose a lot of games because of it. As for you question of is there openings that you can play as both white, and black. The answer is yes, but it is not recommended. Some maybe sound, but trying to play an opening that is meant to be played as black as white commonly leads to you giving up your initiative, and allowing your opponent to equalize quickly. 

Tactics is what you need to focus on the most (this is no matter what opening you choose). There will be plenty of tactics you can find in the opening that are not going to be a book move because your opponent will already be out of book. Hope this helped. 

Here is an article that explains the opening principles: https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-principles-of-the-opening

The Sicilian is a very sharp opening (meaning you have to play the right moves at the right time or else you'll end up with a worse position) so I wouldn't recommend it at your level. The Scandinavian on the other hand breaks an opening principle: Don't bring out your queen early in the game. If you don't know what you're doing, your queen would become a target and would get kicked around while white develops their pieces.

Yeah I've decided to stop worrying so much about openings, pick a few and learn them, while using op;ening principles when i'm put into unfamiliar territory to guide me. 

I've decided on for white: Italian. Black: Sicillian if e4 and Dutch if d4.
So i'm gonna learn those try to work on my middle game and endgame and pick up stratergies along the way then after a few weeks ill branch out with an alternate opening or two and go from there Another opening as white like the London, Kings pawn opening of some variety or maybe the English couldnt hurt. 

 

Before you play another game, I highly recommend analysis of the openings you seek to play with. Review the different variations of that opening, practice that opening with "analysis board" to grasp the visual outcome. This app offers "openings" to analyze. Select that option and you will soon find yourself a much greater player then yesterday. Wishing you continuous success on your journey to play better. You may not remember move from move right away but in time, with much study practice of the openings your opponent(s) present to you, you will increase in accuracy which will enable a great game played leading you straight into victory (if we can avoid blunders). Play a longer time game to enable more time for your thought process. I had to shy away from 10min games to 20minute games which enabled me to view the board a little more longer and the results are amazing. #goldmember #proud2bepartoftheteam

The more you study, the better you become 🤔🗒️✍🏾 #takenotes & follow up on "recommended lessons" @the end of every game lost /won / or draw

Why do people still make posts like these? If u just search youtube or chess.com you can find endless amounts of content on chess openings. Do some research before posting.

play the caro kann defense, its very fun and comfortable for black ❤️

well he is new, just let him be and choose to offer help not judge

For Black, play French against e4 and I would recommend you check out Simon Williams series on it on chess.com and/or check out my French Study https://lichess.org/study/MveA7ini

For d4, I would go for a Queens Gambit Declined as it will be a Similar pawn structure to the French. I personally like the Semi-Slav but players at my level don’t play into on let alone yours so go for this instead.

Against c4 or Nf3, play 1...b6 because it will have you play 1...e6 in the next two moves which Simon Williams also made a series on chess.com called the English Defense. Seeing you have premium, it shouldn’t be a problem for you to do a little homework and watch these videos.

When watching these videos, go to Lichess and create a new study. Label it on the series you are watching and play the moves he plays. I wish I did this and it will will give you a nice resource for you when you want to revisit a certain line or game.

Man, I had the same problem with White move d4.

Try to learn something about Baltic defense for Black...  It works well against d4.

But there is a difficulty with the  Baltic defense too.

#1

"I play The Italian game as white" ++ That is good
"Sicillian and Scandaniavian as black" ++ both are good, pick one
"black openings when people play d4 instead of e4."
++ Ben oni 1 d4 Nf6 2 c4 c5 is a bit like Sicilian
"can you play the same openings for white and black"
++ If you play Sicilian as black, then you can open English as white
"is that recommended?" ++ It simplifies matters

Yes you need 3 openings indeed: one for white, one for black against e4 and one against d4. I had the same question about a year ago and i picked the same openings for black as you do, that's funny. Most of the time the Dutch works against other first moves then e4 and d4 too. That's convenient. The downside is that it leads to complicated middlegames.

I am analysing many of my recent games at the moment and my openings are ok almost all of the time (and my analysis shows very clearly that my openings are not my problem). Loosing pieces for no reason is my problem. So I agree with the advise not to spend much time on your openings umless you enjoy it a lot. 

Make sure that you know the opening principles (important in every opening for every side) very well.

 

Never mind. I misread and thought you picked Dutch and Scandi.

 

You should be more worried about endgames, tactics, strategy, and opening concepts.

The fact that you question whether you can steer 1.d4 into a king pawn opening already shows you do not understand the King pawn opening!

 

The whole point behind the Sicilian (or 1...e5) is to not allow the big center (e4 and d4) for White.  He already pushed e4, and therefore, 1...e5 or 1...c5 prevents White from building and maintaining a big center as 2.d4 in either case will result in Black capturing the d-pawn with the e-pawn or c-pawn, depending on which opening he played.

 

Well, after 1.d4, you cannot prevent d4 any more now, can you?  Now you are looking to prevent e4.  There are a number of ways to do that.

1...d5 - directly stopping e4.

1...f5 - a riskier way of stopping e4

1...Nf6 - using a piece to at least temporarily prevent e4.  Some openings allow e4, others continue to prevent it, like the Nimzo-Indian - 2.c4 e6 3.Nc3 (threatening e4) 3...Bb4 (stopping e4 not by covering e4, but by pinning the piece that would guard e4 and allow white to play it.

 

So you need to learn opening concepts before getting into theory.  There is a reason that 1...e5, the Sicilian, the French, and the Caro-Kann are better than the other 16 moves against e4.  They either prevent d4 (or trade d4 off if played), or they immediately contest e4 and maintain central control.  The Scandinavian does immediately contest e4, but if traded by White, Black maintains no central control as a piece rather than a pawn must recapture.

 

You are not ready for opening theory.

I know this response is a bit late. But I have tried to absorb a lot of the advice shown here and had a look at how I play and what feels comfortable (what works). The conclusion I have come to.

Whilst I am inexperienced the Sicillian although I respect it and like it, is beyond me due to my lack of experience. I might revisit it if I ever reach 1000+ rating or if I feel ready for it. 

Instead to meet e4 I'm looking into The French Defence and the Karo Kann. Both interest me and seem far simpler and easier to get a fundamental grasp of. 

To meet d4 I like the dutch classical or stonewall (working on this opening as I dont encounter d4 a lot) but I like the ideas around it. 

I'm sticking to my e4 white italian opening. I very much enjoy it and am developing greater understanding at the gambits available, the aggressive tactics of the opening and indeed slow positional play!
I also want to learn the London as it looks simple, looks like an enjoyable and easy to grasp alternative to my London. At some stage I have ideas to expand and vary my repetoire of Italian game with roy lopez possibly, kings gambit maybe and the scotch game. 

There is a heap there. But this is all to say I am very much enjoying chess. I'm not seeing my rating climb a lot, but it hasn't dropped substantially either and the more I play the more im exposed to I've spent quite a bit of time looking at middle game tactics and ideas, basic end game check mates and building on how I want to play! 
Thank you to all those who took the time to help me get a footing as a newcomer to Chess and who have bee supportive to me starting my journey

#18
"Instead to meet e4 I'm looking into The French Defence and the Karo Kann. Both interest me and seem far simpler and easier to get a fundamental grasp of."
++ French and Caro-Kann are objectively weaker and thus more complicated to play than the Sicilian. Simplest, strongest, and easiest is 1...e5.

"I also want to learn the London as it looks simple, looks like an enjoyable and easy to grasp"
++ London is not simple at all.

"At some stage I have ideas to expand and vary my repetoire of Italian game with roy lopez possibly, kings gambit maybe and the scotch game."
++ Italian, London, Ruy Lopez, King's Gambit... You spread yourself too thin. Better one that you have experience with than 4 none of which you understand.

"I'm not seeing my rating climb a lot, but it hasn't dropped substantially either"
++ Whenever you change openings your rating is likely to drop.

Out of interest: you say the Sicilian is out of your reach. Why do you feel that way? What is it about this opening that goes wrong for you? I've always advocated playing according to general opening principles and would actually recommend 1. ... c5 as a decent choice for lower rated players. So I'm interested in the problems you run into.

#20
General opening principle: play only your d- and e- pawns.
Sicilian and Caro-Kann violate this principle on move 1.