Using engines in Daily chess

People talk of using engines in daily chess. What is the point in playing using an engine? I never have and never will. How widespread is the use of engines in Daily?

I thought the use of engines was not allowed. 

Yes, I also wonder--what is the point? Most of us play chess for enjoyment, and along the way we hope to improve. Using an engine takes the fun out of playing the game. And it's wrong. 

Use of engines in any form of chess, live or daily is illegal.   That is, you cannot employ a computer to calculate your moves.   However it is legal to use databases, books and the like while playing daily chess.

Databases and research is allowed. People may say 'engines' when they mean an online database.

On chess.com daily chess you are not allowed to use any type of engine assistance.

However, it is worth noting that any serious correspondence chess (like ICCF tournaments) allow the use of engines. Thus serious correspondence chess is basically a completely different game these days. I personally don't understand what is the point of such game, but each to their own.

The point is the search for chess truth.  But those following that path should sign up for games or tournaments in which engine use is allowed.

Using engines in daily chess here at Chess.com is considered cheating.  But what about using opening databases containing games between chess engines?  Is this a gray area?

If one is searching for chess truth, isn't it better and more educational if you use your own brain? How can someone find truth if they are not thinking through the process of playing a game? Using an engine or a database is like taking a test and filling in all the answers after you have looked at the teacher's copy of the test. You get the win, but you learn nothing. 

opening database is allowed, engine - no. You can see which moves have been played before, and the % of outcomes for each colour. Once a new game is reached you're on your own

They do not just play the engine move, of course. It's about choosing the right opening and strategic thinking.

@Sred - But if you are using outside help to choose the right opening or move, what is the point? Where is the fun, where is the satisfaction, in winning if you don't win on your own? Is winning so absolutely important that we don't care how we win? 

Maybe this is a generational thing. I learned to play chess when people became better by...playing the game. We read and were inspired by books like "Bobby Fischer Teaches Chess," but we didn't look at a book when playing against someone else.

It seems unnatural to me to consult a database or an engine when playing against another person.  That's one reason I play very few games here on this site. I don't want to play against people who use outside help to beat me.

Maybe because of the way I feel about this issue my rating will always be at 730 or whatever it is, and that is just fine with me.  I got that rating because I earned it, and I'm proud of that!

No, winning is not that important. It's about learning and improving.

Re "Is winning so absolutely important that we don't care how we win?" You do realize that the opponent can do the same and it's an absolutely fair game?

If you think it's so easy to play with engine support and it's no achievement to win, try beating an ICCF GM.

Edit: btw I never played with engine support, but I have a lot of respect for players who are really good at it. Winning a game against an opponent who won't make the slightest tactical inaccuracy is not easy. These players have to know strategy.

Correspondence chess is a type of chess, not for everyone.  A major part of the enjoyment is in searching for objective truth about opening lines.   With just databases, as I do it.  Or with engines where allowed, to blunder-check and suggest candidate moves.  But the machine moves are not always best.

I think you have misunderstood my point. Oh well...we will have to agree to disagree.

@Antonin1957, at least one of your points was "Where is the fun, where is the satisfaction, in winning if you don't win on your own?". For some people, chess is not about competition.

It is true some people get great enjoyment from playing the game and the result is secondary; but for the vast majority, winning is the aim of the game. If using data bases is allowed in Daily then that's fine; but personally I'd rather try to figure out my own plan, make my own mistakes(no shortage of them)and learn as I go. 

Unfortunately, it's just the case the some people find satisfaction out of winning by cheating. I don't feel that this issue is too widespread though; I have never encountered an engine user in daily chess. Besides, I think chess.com will catch players who are attempting this, especially during daily chess. Lastly, if you play many daily games at once, if one really does happen to be cheating, simply resign, report the player and enjoy all your other games

Keep playing, to accumulate more evidence.

If your opponent is using an engine throughout the entire game it's practically impossible to stand a chance. Sometimes they may use an engine for portions of the game, or certain moves, and you'll be able to capitalise on their mistakes in between.

Believe it or not, engine use in 3+0 blitz games is also a thing, but in a blitz situations it's much easier to defeat an engine user by playing fast and keeping the position simple.

To me, the main purpose of playing daily chess is to learn the game and to improve. When I open a game, I frequently use the opening explorer to see what is most popular in the particular line I'm playing. Then I use the analysis tool and move the pieces around to see if I'm comfortable with that line or with another one. 

I may play it out in analysis to a certain position and then ask the computer to find me all the games that continued from that position so that I can play over a few and see how they evolved. This may be what's referred to as "using an engine." And it's all perfectly legal, ethical, acceptable, and expected. 

What is NOT acceptable under any circumstances is using a chess-playing engine to give you the best move, i.e., play the game for you--even for a move or two. That's cheating, and chess.com has some pretty powerful algorithms to catch it. If you're caught, they'll ban you. Not worth it.

Using a computer to look up chess games in a database is not "using an engine".