Frederic Friedel of Chessbase apparently discovered what he thought was a sure draw, and showed it to Yuri Dokhoian the day after the game. The two of them showed it to Garry at lunch.
Did Kasparov resign too early vs Deep Blue?
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"I'll go retieve the analysis from the forum I posted it on if you guys want to check it out."
* Draws up a sandbag *
Jul 21, 2010
0
#5
FirebrandX wrote:
I've found it, however I think I'm going to make the analysis into my next blog. There's some really fascinating stuff, and my computer is now several times more powerful than the original computer I used, yet the analysis still shows white being able to avoid the perpetual that everyone assumed Kasparov missed when he resigned.
I'll post here again when I've finished my article on it.
looking forward to it.
Jul 21, 2010
0
#6
The question was not whetehr or not Black had a perpetual (in case White tried to hold on to the material) but whether Kasparov had a draw. A deep position analysis by Deep Fritz 12 hows that with best play, White only had an advantage of about half a pawn, far from enough to win (about 2 pawns). Starting from your positino after 4.d6, although both the Queen and rook are attacked, Black has a check to free the Queen. Here is the analysis
Jul 21, 2010
0
#7
Interesting. From a 2007 post by Zahl on Chessninja:
"I have been running various tests with the new Rybka version 2.3.2a for the "Computer analysis of greatest ever" project and decided to see how it sees the famous Game 2 from the 1997 Kasparov - Deep Blue match.
1. e4 e5 2. Nf3 Nc6 3. Bb5 a6 4. Ba4 Nf6 5. O-O Be7 6. Re1 b5 7. Bb3 d6 8. c3 O-O 9. h3 h6 10. d4 Re8 11. Nbd2 Bf8 12. Nf1 Bd7 13. Ng3 Na5 14. Bc2 c5 15. b3 Nc6 16. d5 Ne7 17. Be3 Ng6 18. Qd2 Nh7 19. a4 Nh4 20. Nxh4 Qxh4 21. Qe2 Qd8 22. b4 Qc7 23. Rec1 c4 24. Ra3 Rec8 25. Rca1 Qd8 26. f4 Nf6 27. fxe5 dxe5 28. Qf1 Ne8 29. Qf2 Nd6 30. Bb6 Qe8 31. R3a2 Be7 32. Bc5 Bf8 33. Nf5 Bxf5 34. exf5 f6 35. Bxd6 Bxd6 36. axb5 axb5 37. Be4 Rxa2 38. Qxa2 Qd7 39. Qa7 Rc7 40. Qb6 Rb7 41. Ra8+ Kf7 42. Qa6 Qc7 43. Qc6 Qb6+ 44. Kf1 Rb8 45. Ra6 1-0
and here Kasparov resigned only to learn that after 45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 47.h4 h5 etc. the position is drawn by repetition.
However, Rybka says that's not all there is to it. After 45...Qe3 46.Qxd6 Re8 white has 47.Qd7+ Re7 48.Qc6 Qxe4 49.d6, hitting the rook and the queen at the same time. Black can try 49...Qd3+ 50.Kg1 Re8, but after 51.Ra1 there is no perpetual and the attack continues."
Jul 21, 2010
0
#9
At first, I thought that there might be a draw with 48.Qc6 Qxe4 49.d6 Qxf5+ 50.Kg1 Rd7 51.Qxb5 Qe6 52.Qc5 Kg6 53.Rc6 e4 (smussbrighton on youtube) 54.b5 e3 55.Qxc4 Qe5 56.Qe2 (capabal on chessgames.com) 56...f5 (JamesMazur on chessgames.com) 57.c4 Ra7, but then JamesMazur came up with 54.Qd4 where it looks like white is winning again.
Jul 21, 2010
0
#10
FirebrandX wrote:
@ henri5:
No, I'm pointing out that there was no FORCED draw by perpetual as everyone claimed at the time the game was played. After my sequence, the game MIGHT still be a draw, but it is a very difficult battle for black to prove it if it is.
Edit: and Zahl is the other person I worked with in trying to find a solution for black. Honestly though, It still remains somewhat unclear.
There is only a forced draw if White plays h4, which apparently was the move that Deep Blue was expected to play. It is not for Black to prove that he has a draw, rather the onus is on White to show that he has a win, and he does not. Bottom line is that the game remained to be played with almost equal chances, and that it is still true that Kasparov resigned an equal game, forced draw or not.
And to make things even better, Stockfish (which apparently is stronger than Fritz12) finds that with best play the White advantage evaporates the position is a dead draw!And since this is an endgame position, Black can easily force a draw by exchanging a couple of pieces into a known drawn endgame. Q.E.D.
Jul 21, 2010
0
#11
It looks like no one ever answered MartinII's drawing line from the chessgames.com discusssion:
45...Qe3 46. Qxd6 Re8 47. Qd7+ Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Ra1 h5 52. Qxb5 Rd8 53. Kh2 h4 54. Qc6 Kg8 55. b5 Qg3+ 56. Kh1 Qxc3 57. Rd1 Qc2 58. Re1 Qd3 59. Re4 Qxd6 60. Qxc4+ Qd5 61. Rxh4 Qxc4 62. Rxc4 Rd1+ 63. Kh2 Rb1 =
I decided to look at this game using more modern engines. No ponder and I am using a 4 cpu i7 proccessor with Stockfish 5 playing for Black side(Kasparov) and Houdini 4 playing for White(Deep Blue) First game results was a draw(no perpetual check) at 30 minutes for both engines. However with 1 hour each for each engine white was able to win. If anybody is intrested at the continuations here they are Drawn game first: 45.......Qe3 46. Qxd6 Re8 47. Qd7+ Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Ra1 h5 52. Kh2 h4 53. Qxb5 Rd8 54. Qc6 Kf8 55. Qc7 Qxd6 56. Qxc4 e4+ 57. Kg1 Re8 58. Re1 e3 59. b5 Qd2 60. Qb4+ Kg8 61. Qxh4 Qxc3 62. b6 Qa5 63. b7 Qb5 64. Qh5 Re4 65. Rd1 Re8 66. Rc1 e2 67. Re1 Re4 68. Rxe2 Qxb7 69. Rxe4 Qxe4 70.Qf3 Qe1+ 71. Kh2 Qe5+ 72 g3 Qb2+ 73. Qg2 at this time engines call the match a draw. White is only up a pawn with a +.43 engine eval. advantage.
2nd game White wins after the queen exchange. Engines have 1 hour each. 4 cpu i7 processer(ponder off) Stockfish 5 playing black(Kasparov side) Houdini 4 playing white(Deep Blue side) here is the continuation: 45.......Qe3 46. Qxd6 Re8 47. Qc7 Re7 48. Qc6 Qxe4 49. d6 Qd3+ 50. Kg1 Re8 51. Ra1 h5 52. Kh2 h4 53. Qxb5 Rd8 54. Qc6 Kf8 55. Qc7 Qxd6 56. Qxd6+ Rxd6 57. Ra8+ Ke7 58. Rc8 Rd2 59. Rxc4 Rf2 60. Rxh4 Kd6 61. c4 Rxf5 62. Kg1 Kc6 63. Rg4 g5 64. c5 Kb7 65. Rc4 Kc7 66. b5 e4 67. b6+ c8 68. g4 Rf3 69. c6 Rb3 70. b7+ Kc7 71. Kf2 Rf3+ 72. Ke2 Rb3 73. Rc1 Rb2+ 74. Ke3 Rb6 75. Kxe4 Rb3 76. Rc4 at this point Stockfish 5 resigns the engine eval. is +19.84 advantage for white. When I get around to it I will upload the 2 pgn files to Database of games. I added a 3rd game to database of games-4 hours to each engine and stockfish 5 draws a 2nd time to Houdini 4.
I did not look at the game for perpetual check. I simply looked at the game to see if that Garry did have a possible draw using more up to date engines. --->> SO LET LET THIS SINK INTO YOUR SKULL<<--- If you read my download of the 3 games it clearly says looking for a possible draws for Garry and it is known perpetual check wasn't possible. If your "skull" could just read before you speak!! The name of the topic is" Did Kasparov resign too early against Deep Blue?" Where is my subject matter that is irrelevent to that topic? Nobody here is saying that there was a perpetual check including myself.
Hi I have done up a pdf summation of the post game analysis. My email is first25plus5@gmail.com if you are interested. cheers
Dec 7, 2014
0
#16
Kasparov was told later tgat day he nissed a perp.
He shrugged it off, like it didn't matter. But as it turned out, it mattered a lot.
I've posted the 'mainline' in the comments to the game on this site.
I ran the final position of the 1997 game Kasparov vs Deep Blue. Kasparov resigned the final position. But deep analysis with Deep Fritz 12 shows that after Qe3 Kasparov could have held the game despite being a bishop down! In the main variation Kasparov draws by perpetual check. Has this been pointed out before? Is Deep Fritz wrong?