Fortress?

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gambit-man

black to play...

White has just played 1.h4. Your engine might give you +3 or +4 for white, but does black have the makings of a fortress?

tacticspotter

uh... no?

Lord_Hammer

I dont think so, I dont see how Black can make a fortress. Is there one? 

tacticspotter

wait, what about just rook left and right

MSC157

What about e4, f4, f5, gxf5, exf5 - does it make any difference?

blueemu
MSC157 wrote:

What about e4, f4, f5, gxf5, exf5 - does it make any difference?

That looks like a win to me.

gambit-man

thanks, i was hoping a stronger player would come along and help out. 

blueemu
gambit-man wrote:

thanks, i was hoping a stronger player would come along and help out. 

Me? I'm probably somewhat over-rated.

But yeah, I'm stronger than 1900.

llama

I mean, my 5 second reaction is that white has too many paws... lets say black was the one who is a pawn up, then maybe he could find a way to sac the knight for two pawns and make a standard rook and pawn fortress. 

But definitely I wouldn't resign as black. The game continues for a while. It's just my gut feeling that white should have a way.

Numquam

I analyzed it with help of stockfish and it seems barely a draw with precise play. I think white can get the f-pawn to f6 by force and pin the knight on the back-rank, but then it seems that black can defend with precise rook moves. Other continuations don't look that promising. White is looking to play e6 at the right moment.

 

llama

I looked at it with SF and it was a win... I mean, I only used 5 or 10 minutes so I'm not 100% sure.

The Nf8 idea is defeated by Q on the 8th plus fxg. This creates a passed e pawn.

If the rook stays on the 8th to prevent this... I sort of forgot, the white king comes up and helps (?)

Allowing the rook to g4 with the king stuck on the h file is a bit ridiculous. When you use an engine for a position like this it can't tell the difference between most moves, so you have to help it avoid silly moves.

And remember be patient with white. You can spend 10 moves to make 1 step of progress in positions like this, and often zugzwang is key (at some point). So don't rush.

Numquam
llama03 schreef:

I looked at it with SF and it was a win... I mean, I only used 5 or 10 minutes so I'm not 100% sure.

The Nf8 idea is defeated by Q on the 8th plus fxg. This creates a passed e pawn.

If the rook stays on the 8th to prevent this... I sort of forgot, the white king comes up and helps (?)

Allowing the rook to g4 with the king stuck on the h file is a bit ridiculous. When you use an engine for a position like this it can't tell the difference between most moves, so you have to help it avoid silly moves.

And remember be patient with white. You can spend 10 moves to make 1 step of progress in positions like this, and often zugzwang is key (at some point). So don't rush.

I think black recaptures with knight if fxg6. It would be nice if you could post the winning variation.

llama

Like I said, queen on the 8th first, which means the knight is pinned, and when the king goes to g7... meh I forgot, lol.

Ok, I can try to whip up a quick line with SF.

Numquam
llama03 schreef:

Like I said, queen on the 8th first, which means the knight is pinned, and when the king goes to g7... meh I forgot, lol.

Ok, I can try to whip up a quick line with SF.

The computer may not find the best defense. So you may have to let it play Kg7 manually so that fxg6 is not possible and f6+ is the only way to make progress.

llama

Ok, I tried to cover various stuff.

 

 

llama

I tried to keep the lines going long enough that even the chess.com SF should be seeing mate or a really high number.

llama

Oh, well I just tried, and chess.com's depth 15 SF isn't showing an overwhelming score in all of these, but mine at home was showing either mate or something like +80.00 in all of these.

Numquam
llama03 schreef:

Ok, I tried to cover various stuff.

 

 

Maybe 59...Rd1+ is better in your 54...Rc2 55.Qe8 Kg7 line. It is like the same position I had.

 

ALLlESTIEN
llama03 wrote:

Oh, well I just tried, and chess.com's depth 15 SF isn't showing an overwhelming score in all of these, but mine at home was showing either mate or something like +80.00 in all of these.

As the worlds 3rd strongest engine, I can assure that the position above is a win for white.

llama
Numquam wrote:
llama03 schreef:

Ok, I tried to cover various stuff.

 

 

Maybe 59...Rd1+ is better in your 54...Rc2 55.Qe8 Kg7 line. It is like the same position I had.