Reading the board: push, capture or ignore?

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KevinOSh

I played a short Caro-Kann game https://www.chess.com/game/daily/332627954 and there is a particular mistake that I made which I would like to understand better.

I was Black and it is my move here.

My c-pawn is under attack.

This is a push/capture/ignore decision which reminds me of the lesson https://www.chess.com/lessons/reading-the-board/push-capture-or-ignore

I decided to push, and I played c4.

The reasoning was if I did not move the pawn he would play dxc5 and if I retook with the bishop he would take my bishop with his bishop. Also c4 creates a space advantage for Black.

Why was this a mistake, and what is the best move and why?

KevinOSh

Thanks Ian. As you say, I am behind in development so that supports the idea of ignoring the pawn attack in favour of developing a piece.

I should add that I only know this c4 push to be a mistake because I looked at the computer analysis after the game. I also looked at Qc7 and Rc8 with the computer. Without wanting to spoil anything, neither of those options are the best move. 

The position is far from hopeless, but already at move 11 this is a very tricky and confusing position for me.

JamesColeman

…c4 looks very ill advised, releasing the tension and taking all the pressure off d4. Just bring the Ng8 around to f5 either with or without a preliminary capture on d4 and black looks in very decent shape. 

KevinOSh
JamesColeman wrote:

…c4 looks very ill advised, releasing the tension and taking all the pressure off d4. Just bring the Ng8 around to f5 either with or without a preliminary capture on d4 and black looks in very decent shape. 

If I follow you correctly, you are suggesting 11...Ne7 with the intention of follow up with Nf5 to reassert control of the center.

JamesColeman
IanMcNee wrote:

@JamesColeman - I don't doubt you know far better than I so I'm asking your advice...after Nh6 can't white play g4 with the aim of castling q-side?

Yes, so it’s probably simpler to avoid that and play …Ne7. 1…Ne7 2.dxc5 Nf5 must be somewhat better for black, for example. Nothing wrong with starting with 1…cxd4 either though. 

marqumax

you can't just surrender the center like that

 

KevinOSh

This is one reason why James and Maks are quality players; they can see these things easily.

Typical beginner mistake from me to be more concerned about being up or down one pawn in the short term than control of the center.

I will probably never see this specific position again, so I am looking for some more generalized advice on what factors to look out for to help determine whether to push pawn, capture pawn, or ignore in favor of development.

I learned a few pointers in https://www.chess.com/lessons/reading-the-board/push-capture-or-ignore but I feel that is really just the tip of the iceberg. The examples are very simple and clear cut, such as ignore the threat of pawn capture when you have a back rank checkmate. I will see if I can find some other positions that are less obvious.

This chess.com video can also be found at https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FqZiSUuMbyw

and I found Gotham chess has some tips here: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=h58-sBkPQt8

m24gstevens

You often hear the maxim that "To take is a mistake". Of course, this isn't strictly true, as there are many scenarios where capturing or pushing is appropriate. But this is one of the scenarios where taking is a mistake. To see why, you need to look at your pieces and pawns:

  • Your pieces are stuck on the first rank, so you either need to open up some lines or make some trades
  • White has a central and kingside space advantage, which is much more dangerous than a queenside space advantage: You can get crushed if your pieces start getting in the way of each other in the centre
  • You might have some chances on the queenside, with Qb6 and Rc8, but closing it will mean that is all for nothing

So pushing isn't really an option.

 

Taking would be fine, you wouldn't be worse, but there is no need to take. You will extract more value by leaving the tension there, with something like Qb6, Rc8, and getting a Knight to c6 (Really in these kinds of positions, that is where the knight is more active), and Be7. Then you might want to take on d4 and get your pieces more active.

 

Remember that pawns don't move backward, so be careful when pushing because it could very well limit your options!

Moonwarrior_1

Yea C4 leaves your center way to open and your king is under pressure your cramped why waste a move when you can develop and protect. A good example tho of a game that shows when to push a new such.

Moonwarrior_1
JamesColeman wrote:
IanMcNee wrote:

@JamesColeman - I don't doubt you know far better than I so I'm asking your advice...after Nh6 can't white play g4 with the aim of castling q-side?

Yes, so it’s probably simpler to avoid that and play …Ne7. 1…Ne7 2.dxc5 Nf5 must be somewhat better for black, for example. Nothing wrong with starting with 1…cxd4 either though. 

 

KevinOSh

How is my King under pressure there?

ninjaswat
KevinOSh wrote:

How is my King under pressure there?

No defenders and many holes nearby for white's pieces...

sholom90

OK, folks.  Here's a game I placed recently -- I was white.  The question is about white's c-pawn: push, capture, or ignore.

 

I'll note that I usually make the wrong choice (as defined by the engine), but here the engine liked what I chose.

 

RussBell

This thread brings up some very important concepts of pawn play....thanks to @KevinOSh for initiating it.

The following excellent book is devoted to positional techniques, and contains many lessons which particularly treat the dynamics of pawn play of the sort touched upon in this forum thread.....(check the table of contents)...

Techniques of Positional Play by Bronznik & Terekhin

https://www.newinchess.com/media/wysiwyg/product_pdf/983.pdf

A couple of other books that should be mentioned along these lines are the books on pawn play and structure listed here by Marovic, Shankland and Sokolov...

https://www.amazon.com/s?k=pawn+play+chess&i=stripbooks&ref=nb_sb_noss

more on pawn play and structure (starting from first principles)...

Pawn Play and Structure - for Beginners and Beyond...

https://www.chess.com/blog/RussBell/chess-books-on-pawn-play-and-structure

PerpetuallyPinned

Pawn play...structures

e5 chain here in C-K Advance

No pawn break, no plan

But sometimes pushing c5-c4 is the correct thing to do (break at the b2 base), sometimes f6 (break at the e5 head)

https://simplifychess.com/pawn-structures/pawn-structure-101-e5-chain/index.html

 

 

PerpetuallyPinned

2 games from that article

1 each color showing plans/breaks

PerpetuallyPinned

In your game, the knight on c3 is misplaced, blocking the c-pawn and shortening the e5 chain. d5 is the base here.

Your plan to take the other knight after this is ok, no need for h5 and weakens the king's structure.

Here's some videos on the opening...

https://youtube.com/playlist?list=PLssNbVBYrGcDFJPOrqS4o3R9ZJSNnXOWK

 

sholom90

On the subject of Push/Capture/Ignore, apparently the following game (in Logical Chess, game #3) is fairly famous, and is used by many as a teaching lesson.

 

The move in question is black's move 7

Why is it famous for being a bad move?  Here are three reasons:

1. White has a pawn on d4. It's protected by two pawns (c3 and e3). You literally can not get better than that in terms of protection, because the best black can do is to attack it with two pawns. (Yes, you can attack it with pieces, but that would mean sacrificing material). When black plays c4, that makes white's pawn on d4 -- dead center of the board -- like the rock of Gibraltar. White can choose how and when he wants to use or deal with his d4 pawn at his own leisure. Black permanently weakened his defense of that pawn.

2. What's the positive about "maintaining tension" or "keeping things fluid"? Quite simply this: at any moment, black has the option to "push, capture, or ignore". White must account for all three options for every move he makes. At any given moment, one of those three options for black might be a real good move for him. But after moving c5-c4: poof! As in #1, white never has to worry about that again.

3. A pawn chain is nice, and you attack in the direction it's pointing. However, Look at the pawn chain created by Black's c5 move. Where is it pointing? To the edge of the board where nothing is going to happen. White's chain is pointing at black's center and kingside.

PerpetuallyPinned
sholom90 wrote:

On the subject of Push/Capture/Ignore, apparently the following game (in Logical Chess, game #3) is fairly famous, and is used by many as a teaching lesson.

 

The move in question is black's move 7

Why is it famous for being a bad move?  Here are three reasons:

3. A pawn chain is nice, and you attack in the direction it's pointing. However, Look at the pawn chain created by Black's c5 move. Where is it pointing? To the edge of the board where nothing is going to happen. White's chain is pointing at black's center and kingside.

What's the good move, the reasons, and the plans?

For example, if Black had castled kingside, what should White do and why? If dxc5, is there a name for the resulting structure? Should Black play b6 in anticipation of a pawn exchange?