The Computer Takes FOREVER To Mate Sometimes!

I'm still practicing my 1. e4 e5 as I'm looking at openings that give me an open position so I can take advantage of my tactical skills. There were two moves in this game that I thought really hard about before I made them: 16. Rab8 and 25. Qh4+. There were just so many opportunities with my Queen posted in his broken-castled position. In the first move in question, I chose to play defense rather than look for a mate/material advantage. And in the second move in question, I chose to go for the material advantage after looking really hard for a mate. I hope I made the right decisions.

The moves after 22. Nf3+ weren't necessarily easy (at least not for me), but as it stands, it lead me to winning TWO exchanges! Of course, this kind of advantage would be enough to handle a lot of human players in a tournament, but man, the computer plays a pretty good endgame, which is really good against my horrible endgame skills. I suppose, even though White is down the two exchanges, his Bishop pair is very active and with excellent mobility, which is the key in the endgame. After a bunch of sub-optimal moves, I finally get tired and sacrifice my Rooks for a long and drawn out, but winning, position.

If anyone has any suggestions about how to breakdown White's defense after 27. Bd3 Qxc3 or 29. Ke2 g6, that'd be great. As I'm sure a good bunch of you out there wouldn't have to sacrifice both Rooks to reach a winning position.

Also, it was my first time playing the Scotch in like 8 years, so if some of the opening moves are a bit sub-optimal as well, I'm all ears. Thanks.

I'm probably better than 1800 now, provided that I concentrate and patiently play a solid game against good competition, rather than always looking for the win. What I found really interesting is that I went to the database, thinking my opening was not the greatest, but it turns out, I was able to stay in book/mainline with the Master moves without looking at the book all the way until White made the questionable combo of 11. g4 + 12. 0-0 :))

I don't think the endgame took particularly long, and those exchange sacs to reach an easily winning pawn endgame looked like the logical thing to do.

Scarblac

Thanks for the tip. Feels kind of weird though to spend all that time and effort to win 2 exchanges and then give the exchanges back like a dozen turns later. I feel like a 2000 or 2200 player would find a more elegant way to win with his stronger pieces, but I could be wrong.

On a side note, I just noticed I should have titled this thread "It Takes FOREVER To Mate the Computer Sometimes" rather than "It Takes The Computer FOREVER To Mate Sometimes". Oh well.

You're wrong. Your exchange sacs were strong and good.

marvellosity,

Really? The exchange sacs were both strong and good? Well thank you for the advice and the compliment. Both you and Scarblac have commented that that is the way to do in this game.

I haven't encounter many positions, if any at all, like this. My gut feeling at the time was that a Master would find a more elegant way to win, but yeah, I guess trading down to a winning endgame is the good, old-fashioned right thing to do.

Anymore strong players out there with your opinion? They are all appreciated.

Okay, I think why I thought that the exchange sacs were kind of in-elegant at the time was because White was obviously handicapped with 2 Bishops vs. 2 Rooks and he had 4!!! pawn islands. I figured that there must be some player out there who could take advantage of his superior pieces to start picking off those pawn islands, and then possibly trade off all the pieces for like a 5 vs. 1 pawn endgame.

You could tell that you were much better by the fact that you could take your time, shuffle the rooks around a bit, and then eventually still trade them off winning a pawn. If it was closer, you'd have to be more precise.

And 5 vs 1 isn't better than 5 vs 4, if the 5 vs 4 wins.

By the way, what would you have played after 55.Kg1?

11.g4? huh? heh funny computer.

You press on his weakened position very well after that.

16. Qb1? should keep close with defensive options - 16.Qe1 looks far better.

I think you had a chance to end it (or win material) quickly with 16.Bf3 followed by Rae8 (expecially if he dares to take the stupid b7 pawn). White's king will have a hell of a time:)

In any case, after 21...Nh4, there are no two ways of seeing this: you're winning.

Here's a nice thing, you're winning anyway. with what you played to of course, and winning no less clearly, I just wanted to show something nice:

25...Bxe4 actually ends the game right there by threatening mate in 3 (1.Qf3+ Kg1 2.Qh1+ Kf2 3.Qg2#).

if 26.Re2 Ra8 27.Qxc7 (forced) Rxa4, there are unstoppable mating threats against the white king (well, unless giving up a whole rook is considered stopping the threat...).

Just thought it was a cool threat to end it all. Your moves were just as good though.

I leave my opinion of the exchange sacrifices to the next post, as I've been told mine are sometimes too long:)

42...Rxf2: Well, just as winning as any other idea. If you KNOW you can win a certain position (and preferebly, HOW to win it), it doesn't matter in the slightest which path you take. Sure, you could have won without the exchange sac, but why do you think it would have been better or worse? I look at the sac and think:

Wins easily, good move.

Other ways to win were there of course, for instance 42...Rh3+, and after either Bg3 or Ke2 (white has to keep his d3 bishop, so these are the only reasonable ones), 43...Ra8 and black's threats will just keep him at least a rook up:) nice? sure.

ANY better than what you played? nope. a win is a win. And both are rather easy wins... once you see one, there's no point in looking for another. Your play was very nice.

As to the second exchange sacrifice, that just looks to me as the easiest way to win by far. I can't even offer any other quick and/or beautiful way.

Just a fine move.

Very good game on your part.

grolich

25. Bxe4!! that is such a %$#@ing strong move. While in the game I spent like 5 minutes or so considering this move. I did see the first part of your analysis, but I was afraid that after Re2, the Black King could duck out of my attack via the 1st rank.

I didn't see that with Ra8, the Queen is forced to the c-file, a truly unfavorable spot to be in. I really looked hard at 25. Bxe4 but yeah, I figured that if the computer played Re2 he might escape and the intermediate Ra8 wasn't easy (for me) to see.

I've done like a dozen of those Tactics Trainer problems where you're supposed to see that you can trap the Queen, but I think my record on those problems is like 2 of 12 =/

I think with just a little more improvement, I would be confident enough to play 25. Bxe4, but I didn't want my attack to fizzle out. I figured, if I'm up 2 exchanges, that might be enough to win the game, which is why I ultimately went with the tactical combo of grabbing the last Rook.

Scarblac

Thanks for the props and encouragement (you too grolich).

You do make a very good point that Black had the luxury of being VERY imprecise with the win due to a huge material advantage, hindered somewhat by White's strong piece activity.

In tournament play, I think you're right. If you see a winning line, no matter how ugly it is, you take it. Period. But in training, I think it's good to see the possibilities, like some of the line that grolich suggested that would win a bit more elegantly.

And lastly, if White had played 55. Kg1, I probably would go with Kh3, relegating his King to the back rank. If he moves to f1, I obviously Queen with Kh2. And if he pushes his pawn, I recapture with two passed pawns that can't both be stopped.

I asked that because the "obvious" 55.Kg1 Kh3 56.Kh1! g2+ 57.Kg1 Kg3 58.e5 dxe5 is stalemate.

But you can simply play 55.Kg1 Kg4! picking up pawns e4 and c4.