AlphaZero vs Stockfish Games

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GiveWell
The ten published games from the 100-game match. AlphaZero defeated Stockfish with a record of 28 wins, 72 draws, 0 losses. Are these the highest quality decisive chess games ever played to date?
 
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Rocky64

In Game 8, after 53.Ke3, why would Stockfish throw away a P with 53...h5? The Stockfish engine here immediately picked the three BK moves as all better than 53...h5, and the eval for this P move doesn't improve from 4th position even after 10 minutes, when the game was played at 1 minute per move. 

usmansk

because that stockfish was evaluating 80 million positions per minute as compare to few thousands on your machine. Give him 4 to 5 hours he will come to that conclusion

Rocky64

Okay, thanks, I'll give this a test tomorrow...

shasha_op
rajnikant001 wrote:
FranklinLeroyCarroll wrote:
pfren wrote:
GiveWell έγραψε:
 Are these the highest quality decisive chess games ever played to date?

 

With one engine limited to 1GB RAM, and 1 minute per move, they are closer to the definition of stupid games created to promote a Google product.

Do you mind linking to your source? I can't find the actual paper---and I can't find anything that tells me the specifications. 

 

Well,we just have this information presented in the paper:


AlphaZero and the previous AlphaGo Zero used a single machine with 4 TPUs. Stockfish and Elmo played at their strongest skill level using 64 threads and a hash size of 1GB.
This is causing an issue. One more issue is that the use of an opening book. There is an argument that since AlphaZero learnt chess on its own,it has its own set of opening book however stockfish which is essentially a brute-force calculating engine needs an opening book to level the playing field. Also, the team at Google in their paper has not  mentioned explicitly  which version of Stockfish was used to play against AlphaZero.
 
The only way to settle whether AlphaZero is the best is to give Stockfish what it requires to play properly and AlphaZero to use the same hardware as the Stockfish.

Can you please explain the opening book argument? I don't get it! Does it mean that it "memorizes" hundreds of openings and does not evaluate other streams of moves? How does it help?

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shasha_op wrote:

Can you please explain the opening book argument? I don't get it! Does it mean that it "memorizes" hundreds of openings and does not evaluate other streams of moves? How does it help?

Brute forcing opening positions is very demanding - lots of pieces, lots of possible moves. Standard computer engines like Stockfish rely on a preprogrammed opening book so there is no need to use brute force, because it can just pick one of the moves from the database. AlphaZero apparently doesn't have a preprogrammed opening book, but it kinda created one for itself, through machine learning. Obviously, Stockfish cannot do that and is severely hampered without an opening book.

Rocky64
Vortac_EG wrote:

AlphaZero apparently doesn't have a preprogrammed opening book, but it kinda created one for itself, through machine learning. 

Gives new meaning to "opening preparation".grin.png

one-of-many

thumbup.png

gil31

hello,

4r1kq/p2prp1p/5RpP/2p5/7Q/1B4P1/P4PK1/8 b - - 0 49

could you explain me this bad move of stockfish 8 (rook F8 evaluation -50) vs( king F8 equality) ?

thanks

 

Equus64

The idea that Alphazero has taught chess by itself is really intereting. If I would do the same I wouldn't succeed in such a way :-)  Really interesting to to find why. Except the fact that silicium is not brain cells, what is the mecanism that makes this possible for AZ ?

ChessMaster2555

I wouldn't be surprised if stockfish didn't break plydepth 20-30's 1 minute turns what a joke.  alphazero versus iccf champions in a game of correspondence chess = alphazero losing everytime

raghavsan

True, that's just some chess gimmick. Also, StockFish was only limited to 1 minute per move and AZ was running on a SUPERCOMPUTER compared to SF which was running on something as small as a laptop.

Elroch
ChessMaster2555 wrote:

I wouldn't be surprised if stockfish didn't break plydepth 20-30's 1 minute turns what a joke.  alphazero versus iccf champions in a game of correspondence chess = alphazero losing everytime

It was running 64 threads which I infer means 32 cores. I am not sure what they used, but it could have been one of Intel's new massively multicore Xeon processors.  (This is not a "laptop", raghavsan). Thus 1 minute was equivalent to quite a long time per move on a typical fast multicore machine.

Also, AlphaZero was getting stronger with extra time per move at a much faster rate than Stockfish, according to the data.

raghavsan

I read it on a website..

 

raghavsan

But still a supercomputer is certainly bigger than that

raghavsan

If any of you did notice what I was writing, it was from the quote of Nakamura about AZ.

raghavsan

😂😂

Elroch
raghavsan wrote:

But still a supercomputer is certainly bigger than that

Yes. These days the top supercomputers are like a million PCs, not like a hundred.

RMChess1954

This is much bigger than chess. The DeepMind team doesn't care if it was a fair match or what anyone in the chess community thinks. They proved their point. What's next? Click Here

 

 

congrandolor

The "opening book" argument doesnt have any sense. Just look at the games, Stockfish came out of the openings well in every game, close to equality in each one, it was simply crushed in the middlegames.