did I miss something or did I just destroy the French?


First 6.... nc6 is bad qg4 gives white a big edge f4 was bad if black had played accuratly
I don't believe in your example that's what black is supposed to do. In that position white seems to have a nice advantage because his center is rock solid. f4 ignores d4 and weakens the kingside so the pawn should be kept on c5 here to attack it. f4 is still playable though since the kingside weakness can't be completely exploited but black can get more early queenside play by opening the c file. My book says f4 leads to an equal game.

9...c4 was necessary.
15...Bf5 and your position is probably resignable. As dc1985 said, 14. Qxg7# was necessary.

In the winawer black usually castles queenside and therefore would like to close lines with c4 also forces the bishop of the diagonal pointing on the kingside and significantly reduces the scope of the both whites bishops which is good for black as he has the two knights. Castling kingside just gives white an attack with f4-f5. Plus the pawn on d5 is already protected by the pawn on c3.
I think you're used to the poisoned pawn variation. Both kingside and queenside need to be carefully considered in the winawer. I play 7...0-0 which is completely different. Black can get plenty of play on the queenside by moves like ...Qa5-a4 and can open or close up the c file by ...c4 which is a very important decision. By playing ...c4 you take all the pressure off the center and although it's more closed, the bishops are still have good scope on e2 and c1 Black will play ...c4 usually only if he can play ...f6 as a follow up, and here that wouldn't be useful once white is castled because the pawn on f4 holds it too well. True, d4 is better guarded now, but ...Qa4 takes advantage of the c pawn pin and at the same time attacking c2. White will not have so much time attacking black with f5 because black has plenty of both queenside and central counterplay. Sometimes black can get attacked when he goes kingside (for instance the Bxh7+ sac in this game) but the point is that if he gets rid of the threats (which he often can in the variation I play) he plays ...f6/...f5 and gives himself the f file and more central control in exchange for opening up lines for white's bishops but if black plays ...f5 and ...c4 closing the game, how does black continue? Meanwhile white is preapring for g4 and black has no play in the center and the queenside is also locked. Just because black goes queenside in many lines doesn't mean it's always good in this opening. The strategies are very flexible.

What are you suggesting that white attacks on the kingside instead of black one idea is playing f5 followed by h6 and after the rook is on g8 g5 smashing whites kingside
Ok... there's just one problem. If white sees black doing that after ...f5 then white plays g4 himself! If black doesn't take on g4 white can play for gxf5 or g5 and white clearly owns the kingside either way. Remember black is down on central space so it's more difficult for him to expand on the wings; that's why although black usually doesn't actually play ...cxd4 he keeps the pawn on c5 for a long time so that white has to worry about the possibility if white goes crazy on the kingside. In fact if black plays ...f5 and goes for ...g5 white can very well just keep his king in the center and move his king up to connect the rook because of the very closed center.

the bxh7 sac is common when black neglects to protect his k-side. it happens alot in the french it seems. good awareness to know when to use it

When I first saw the topic title "did I miss something or did I just destroy the French?" I was like, didn't everybody destroy the French?
and then I remembered "oh yeah, he's talking about the chess opening"
nice game
P.S. I apologize ahead of time if some random Frenchman reads this and gets offended....
When I first saw the topic title "did I miss something or did I just destroy the French?" I was like, didn't everybody destroy the French?
and then I remembered "oh yeah, he's talking about the chess opening"
nice game
P.S. I apologize ahead of time if some random Frenchman reads this and gets offended....
What about a 'random' American getting offended?

446919, I know you're trying to argue that c4 has its merits, but in that line after 8. Bd3, just play ...cxd4 9. cxd4 Nxd4. 8. Nf3 should be played.

This is what your plan could lead to.
but f4 isn't a refutation to the french winawer
Whoa! I never said that f4 refuted the winawer. i agree with you that it is not white's best move though it leads to equality. However, the reason why actually contradicts the ...c4 move. Since f4 creates more weaknesses and leavs d4 open to attack, black should attack that square and try to open the c file if the f file opening isn't too dangerous. Why? because when white plays f4 e5 is too hard to undermine so ...f6 and recapturing with the g pawn won't happen since white doesn't need to take on f6 therefore white will have an uncontested space advantage. Compare the other main moves instead of f4 and besisdes Qg4: a4 and Nf3. a4 prevents ...Qa4 while Nf3 supports d4 and develops. Black should therefore try to play on the c file and attack the queenside/center with ...Qa5-a4, taking advantage of the weakness of f4.

I have read once on this site that some computer chess softwares lack the abillity to understand certain threats, like opening the h file, the Bxh7 sacrifice might be a weak joint in the little chess partner...

didn't see the pawn would be hanging This is what i meant
Alright, black is quite a bit worse because he's completely cramped and there isn't much he can do about it. White's plan is of course to attack the queenside but keep an eye on the center. How does white respond to ...g5? For one thing this will take alow of time to play. Anyways, i think white should then play exf6 if ...g5 followed by Ne5 when he has an iron grip on the position. Black is still cramped and the knight is unassailable. As black prepares ...g5, white can try to get his rook to b5 kicking the queen off and using the combined power of his a pawn, b file pressure, and strong e5 knight to make black's position uncomfortable. You can argue that black will have some open files; that's true but white with that knight on e5 and his pieces on the b file are more prepared to attack while black's pieces are still tripping over each other. However, white doesn't even have to castle kingside. He could just stay in the center and play on both wings or defend f4 with g3 and white should still has the better chances because of his crushing space advantage. White's bishops aren't ultra active, but take a look at your knights. Are they really much better here? No, which is probably because of white's space advantage again.

I realize these are probably not the best moves for white
Now that black is castled (queenside!) white isn't going to play g4! That's only if black plays ...f5 like you first said. if black plays ...f6, white just does what I explained.

This is what your plan could lead to.
but f4 isn't a refutation to the french winawer
Whoa! I never said that f4 refuted the winawer. i agree with you that it is not white's best move though it leads to equality. However, the reason why actually contradicts the ...c4 move. Since f4 creates more weaknesses and leavs d4 open to attack, black should attack that square and try to open the c file if the f file opening isn't too dangerous. Why? because when white plays f4 e5 is too hard to undermine so ...f6 and recapturing with the g pawn won't happen since white doesn't need to take on f6 therefore white will have an uncontested space advantage. Compare the other main moves instead of f4 and besisdes Qg4: a4 and Nf3. a4 prevents ...Qa4 while Nf3 supports d4 and develops. Black should therefore try to play on the c file and attack the queenside/center with ...Qa5-a4, taking advantage of the weakness of f4.
If Black keeps the tension with the pawn on c5 and black castles queenside white could blow up the queenside with
Ugh. you missed my point again. If black castles queenside, he will indeed play ...c4, but he wants to be able to play ...f6 eventually. If he goes kingside, he wants to keep the tension for awhile. But again where to castle for black is very important and it really depends on what white does. In fact on any move but f4 like we're looking at going queenside and playing ...f6 would be fine but not here because e5 can't be undermined. So anything wrong with my exf6 (after ...g5) idea?

Any comments about this?
As white I would play Qa3 and Rb5 when now the a pawn is mobile, backed by white's control of both queenside files. How can black counter this idea? He can try, but white definitley seems to be ahead. If white didn't play f4, then black could make a big attack on e5 and if white recaptures then play ...gxf6. Here however e5 is too strong so basically black has to punish that move which is to play where he ignored. Go against d4 and c3 and c4 pawns.

Any comments about this?
As white I would play Qa3 and Rb5 when now the a pawn is mobile, backed by white's control of both queenside files. How can black counter this idea? He can try, but white definitley seems to be ahead. If white didn't play f4, then black could make a big attack on e5 and if white recaptures then play ...gxf6. Here however e5 is too strong so basically black has to punish that move which is to play where he ignored. Go against d4 and c3 and c4 pawns.
What would you do against this?
What about Qb4 with the idea Bc1-a3? This allows a queen trade but I think white still gets great queenside play with a bishop on a3 and rooks on open lines after ...Qxb4 and black is still cramped and lacking active play. Or white could double rooks on the b file and then trade.
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