The Marshall Attack, playing from both sides

Sort:
VimalKumarK

Played this game today. It was near-perfect one with threats every move. Hope you all enjoy it!

 

 

This is me playing the Marshall Attack as Black yesterday.

 

 

BronsteinPawn

Is Nc3 theory?

VimalKumarK

Position demanded for it. Attacking Nd5, b5, capture on c3 will give a stronger control of the center for white so how bad can it be? The main idea was to not accept the pawn and then defend. Istead, decline it and play actively.

BronsteinPawn

Does that mean is not theory?

BronsteinPawn

Nc3 makes sense, and the pawn structure is not bad, in fact I like it, Im just curious to know wheter it is theory or not.

VimalKumarK

Honestly, I dont know. I played with that logic in mind. Playing an anti-Marshall move (8. a4) and then going to capture the pawn few moves later didn't make sense. Hence Nc3.

VimalKumarK
pfren wrote:

What is that?

19.Qxe3 is a bad blunder, and 20.f3 Bxg3 ends the game at once (21.Re2 Bxf3).

You are correct. I didn't spot this line during this 10 min game, or even later. Even now I was not convinced about all the lines until I ran it on stockfish. 21. ... Bxf3 wins.

Rat1960

In the blunder version of the second game ( 19. Qxe3 Bd5 20. f3 Bxg3 21. Re2 Bxf3 )
What happens after 22. Bxc6 please?

I was wondering if white could get a rook and minor piece for the queen ?

Rat1960
VimalKumarK wrote:

Honestly, I dont know. I played with that logic in mind. Playing an anti-Marshall move (8. a4) and then going to capture the pawn few moves later didn't make sense. Hence Nc3.

8. ... Na5 9. Ba2 d5 10. exd5 e4 11. Ne5 Nxd5

28. Qxg5+
It is not easy to see Re7+ QxR; Qxg5+ Kf8; 30. Qg8#
Or .. Rg6; QxQ+
but it is still 31. #

14. ... Bf6
With three ways to defend the pawn, the worst.
 14. ... Qd6 15. Qe2 Bf6 16. Bg5
 and black runs out of e5 defenders.
 14. ... Bd6
 still painful as above where Qe2 stops ... Re8
Maybe 14. ... Bb7 and sacrificing pawn for play ?
Which ever way, this move appears to be game point.

A very impressive game, thank you for posting it.

VimalKumarK
Rat1960 wrote:

In the blunder version of the second game ( 19. Qxe3 Bd5 20. f3 Bxg3 21. Re2 Bxf3 )
What happens after 22. Bxc6 please?

I was wondering if white could get a rook and minor piece for the queen ?

In most of the lines, White loses his Queen. 

22. Bxc6 Bxh2+ 23. Rxh2 Qg3+ 24. Kf1 Bg2+ 25. Rxg2 Qxe3 26. Bxa8 Qc1+! 27. Kf2 Rxa8.

VimalKumarK
Rat1960 wrote:
VimalKumarK wrote:

Honestly, I dont know. I played with that logic in mind. Playing an anti-Marshall move (8. a4) and then going to capture the pawn few moves later didn't make sense. Hence Nc3.

8. ... Na5 9. Ba2 d5 10. exd5 e4 11. Ne5 Nxd5

28. Qxg5+
It is not easy to see Re7+ QxR; Qxg5+ Kf8; 30. Qg8#
Or .. Rg6; QxQ+
but it is still 31. #

14. ... Bf6
With three ways to defend the pawn, the worst.
 14. ... Qd6 15. Qe2 Bf6 16. Bg5
 and black runs out of e5 defenders.
 14. ... Bd6
 still painful as above where Qe2 stops ... Re8
Maybe 14. ... Bb7 and sacrificing pawn for play ?
Which ever way, this move appears to be game point.

A very impressive game, thank you for posting it.

14. ... Bf6 just helped me get rid of the dark squared bishop which otherwise I had no idea where to develop. Glad you enjoyed the game!

Rat1960

Vimal, in the first game where you are white, what do you think about
(8. a4) 

8. ... Na5 9. Ba2 d5 10. exd5 e4 11. Ne5 Nxd5
I think black is doing well, which might be why 8. c3 is more common.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044227

VimalKumarK
Rat1960 wrote:

Vimal, in the first game where you are white, what do you think about
(8. a4) 

8. ... Na5 9. Ba2 d5 10. exd5 e4 11. Ne5 Nxd5
I think black is doing well, which might be why 8. c3 is more common.
http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1044227

8. c3 is played in response to 7. ... d6. When Black plays 7. ... 0-0, it is a sign to go for the sharp 8. c3 d5 (Marshall attack) in which Black sacrifices a pawn for quick development and open diagonals against the White King. I admit I have very limited knowledge about whatever openings I play, but somewhere I read that theory has advanced to such a limit where in some Marshall attack lines Black now even have resources like the Ra8-a6-g6/h6 rook lift to join the attack.

 

8. a4 is one of the anti-Marshall lines. I believe the others are 8. d3 and 8. h3. The idea is to not go for the usual 8. c3 which slows down White's Queen side development if Black choose to smash open the centre quickly. Many years ago I had the book 'How to play the Ruy Lopez' or something similar (which I gave away to another tournament player then). I was a kid then and understanding positions was way above my skill. I started playing again some 2 months ago, so this is my second innings in Chess. I am relatively better now, but I also know that there is still scope for a lot of improvement.

8. a4 Na5 9. axb5 Nxb3 10. cxb3 White gets a very playable position (with no immediate threats from Black who was looking for an attacking game) inspite of the doubled pawns which has the potential of becoming a passer later. 

BronsteinPawn

I believe 8.h3!! is the best Anti Marshall.

BronsteinPawn

 If you play the Marshall as black tho why dont you grab the pawn?

VimalKumarK
BronsteinPawn wrote:

 If you play the Marshall as black tho why dont you grab the pawn?

I dont want to defend the resulting position when I can sidestep and develop instead. Not taking the pawn itself spoils half of Black's fun he wanted to have.

 

Marshall is too dangerous even in top level 2600+. It is more due to the respect for this gambit that many top players opt for such anti-Marshall systems.

VimalKumarK
BronsteinPawn wrote:

I believe 8.h3!! is the best Anti Marshall.

Probably. But if Black goes for d5 (Marshall), and if white accepts the pawn, h3 becomes vulnerable to Bxh3.

BronsteinPawn
VimalKumarK escribió:
BronsteinPawn wrote:

I believe 8.h3!! is the best Anti Marshall.

Probably. But if Black goes for d5 (Marshall), and if white accepts the pawn, h3 becomes vulnerable to Bxh3.

There are no Bxh3 cheapos because Qh4 doesnt come with tempo on h2, and against an inmediate Bxh3-Qh4 White has Qg4.

VimalKumarK
BronsteinPawn wrote:
VimalKumarK escribió:
BronsteinPawn wrote:

I believe 8.h3!! is the best Anti Marshall.

Probably. But if Black goes for d5 (Marshall), and if white accepts the pawn, h3 becomes vulnerable to Bxh3.

There are no Bxh3 cheapos because Qh4 doesnt come with tempo on h2, and against an inmediate Bxh3-Qh4 White has Qg4.

I am not arguing, neither do I have any lines to show. What I meant was why weaken the King side? Bxh3 would be a constant threat that white can overlook if careless.

BronsteinPawn

I am arguing. In a polite way.

For once Black usually plays Bb7 after h3, and if he plays the inmediate d5 I dont think he has any kingside attack, h3 is useful.