2 Bishops vs Rook

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Pawn_Xchange_Master

But in general, who normally wins? Is it the Bishop pair? or the lone Rook?

IzaliasOnline

Two bishops are difficult to mate with, you can mate with just a rook and a king easily.

Pawn_Xchange_Master

Yeah, that is true. But with practice, it is not that difficult at all to mate with 2 Bishops. You just need to force the enemy king into the corner. But what if there was 2 Bishops and 1 enemy Rook on the board? Who wins? or is it a draw?

IzaliasOnline
pfren wrote:

In generic positions, a rook is an easy prey for the bishop pair.

Comments like "Two bishops are difficult to mate with, you can mate with just a rook and a king easily" should be dismissed as outright stupid.


Really, because it is "very difficult" AKA F**king impossible to pin rook down if the king stays off a matching coloured square on a diagonal which is a 14 - 36 chance disregarding the near f**king certainty that it is nearly always avoidable with a rook on black square and the king on a white square or worse a square that is near to it! A situation that means that if the bishop takes it will then get taken... as anybody will tell you when it is down to just the 5 pieces: 2 bishops and a king for white and a rook and a king for black.

A king can easily avoid lining up with his rook rendering a bishop attack pointless and with a vertical march on a king, a rook can easily check a king in 1 move or line two peices up on the x or y axis and whilst a bishop can block with his king black can easily force stalemate by taking the bishop the first chance he gets, so no, bishops suck.

gist718
MarxIzalias wrote:
pfren wrote:

In generic positions, a rook is an easy prey for the bishop pair.

Comments like "Two bishops are difficult to mate with, you can mate with just a rook and a king easily" should be dismissed as outright stupid.


Really, because it is "very difficult" AKA F**king impossible to pin rook down if the king stays off a matching coloured square on a diagonal which is a 14 - 36 chance disregarding the near f**king certainty that it is nearly always avoidable with a rook on black square and the king on a white square or worse a square that is near to it! A situation that means that if the bishop takes it will then get taken... as anybody will tell you when it is down to just the 5 pieces: 2 bishops and a king for white and a rook and a king for black.

A king can easily avoid lining up with his rook rendering a bishop attack pointless and with a vertical march on a king, a rook can easily check a king in 1 move or line two peices up on the x or y axis and whilst a bishop can block with his king black can easily force stalemate by taking the bishop the first chance he gets, so no, bishops suck.


 LOL i'd love to see you forcing a draw against the IM given a rook against his 2 bishops.

waffllemaster
MarxIzalias wrote:
pfren wrote:

In generic positions, a rook is an easy prey for the bishop pair.

Comments like "Two bishops are difficult to mate with, you can mate with just a rook and a king easily" should be dismissed as outright stupid.


Really, because it is "very difficult" AKA F**king impossible to pin rook down if the king stays off a matching coloured square on a diagonal which is a 14 - 36 chance disregarding the near f**king certainty that it is nearly always avoidable with a rook on black square and the king on a white square or worse a square that is near to it! A situation that means that if the bishop takes it will then get taken... as anybody will tell you when it is down to just the 5 pieces: 2 bishops and a king for white and a rook and a king for black.

A king can easily avoid lining up with his rook rendering a bishop attack pointless and with a vertical march on a king, a rook can easily check a king in 1 move or line two peices up on the x or y axis and whilst a bishop can block with his king black can easily force stalemate by taking the bishop the first chance he gets, so no, bishops suck.


We're not talking about pawnless endgames.  Two bishops are almost always better than a rook as everyone has already said.

tommcgrath

you shouldn't be asking about your game and yes 2 bishops are better than a rook but it depends on the postion and the pieces on the board.

True_Beginner

I think that all GMs will prefer bishop pair to lone rook.

It is true that it's difficult to mate the enemy King with two bishops, because we don't look after a checkmate, but to tend to endgame where we'll smash all enemy pawn while we keep ours safe.

Especially in this case of position, bishop pair must win!

EstebanTunggul

I won with a rook against 2 bishops once against same level opponent. BUT then again the pawns were favorable for me.

Mobility is very (and I mean very) limited against 2 bishops because just about anything (exchange, sacrifice, etc) can cause the king to diagonally line up with the rook due to 2 color domination by bishops. So i'd say work with pawns if you have the two bishops. i.e. keep advancing the pawns and then TADAA you have the opponent's rook lined up without him realizing it before it's too late :)

Nordlandia

Two bishops is closely equal in strength vs rook and knight with one pawn down for the side with the exchange up. I have done some testing on this imbalance subject and it appears that the Rook and Knight is favorable by an reasonable margin. 

Houdini 3 Pro x64 is capable of drawing Critter 1.6a majority of the games, even though the pair provides some problems and is not easy to breakthrough. 

I can try set contempt on 0 to check if more drawing games are achieved.

rhobspier

You guys know you're chess..com app has a vs computer with custom board and a 2k rated computer....just saying.nullrated it as about drawn btw

DZHALEH

Is there possibilities for white to win?

Nordlandia

Ceteris paribus, the rook need 1½ pawn to equalize knight a bishop. And two pawns to even two bishops. In the late endgame rook+pawn is often fine against two knights. Two knights is the worst piece duo against single rook. 

m_connors

Consensus seems to be 2 Bs are better against a sole Rook; however, I have to think other considerations, including relative abilities, have to come into play.

ryry0819

Who is better? White or black?

STEVESMITHFAN49
pfren wrote:
ryanzhangmiller έγραψε:

Who is better? White or black?

 

It depends on what you were smoking when setting up this position.

lmao

ryry0819

I was not smoking. I am only 10.

 

Strangemover

If you put a black knight on h8 in that position it's quite interesting. 

EndgameEnthusiast2357

Drawish if those are the only pieces, even if you manage to get to a position like this, the rook side will draw by stalemate.

EndgameEnthusiast2357
Strangemover wrote:

If you put a black knight on h8 in that position it's quite interesting. 

I have always been curious about 2 bishops + knight vs rook, but tablebases seem to only have 2 knight +bishop v rook. Have a feeling 3 minor pieces win after a few hundred moves.