Bad puzzles or tactic solutions

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seldingardane

I'm an average chess player with a rating of just over 1400. That being said I've solved quite a few of the puzzles and the tactics on the chess app. Quite often I am perplexed by the solutions. Many of them seem erroneous --- like the only solution is to make a move that is so outrageously dumb that no one in their right mind would do so. 

 

Has anyone else experienced this? I mean, I use these to improve my game but some of the solutions make me feel like I'd be a worse player for using them.

 

One such example is included below. I solved this today (11/23/16).

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If you look at the given scenario in Panel A: Black's King is boxed in f8 with the rook guarding on g8. White's setup, in my eye shows checkmate in 2 with move Qh8, Rxh8, and finally Rxh8# as I attempted on Panel B which returned as incorrect. 

 

The correct solution, apparently, is Panel C: Qg7+ check, Rxg7, Rh8+ check, Rg8, Nh7+ check, Ke8, Rxg8# checkmate.

 

As you can see the correct solution is much longer with seven moves vs my solution which was only three, and my solution does work in a real scenario but not a solution for the puzzle. Situations like this baffle me. You could argue "The puzzle wants this solution instead of that..." sure but my answer is the simpler of the two solutions. 

 

You could also argue that in my solution black does not have to take white's queen on h8 but if black doesn't it's checkmate with either Ke8 then Qxg8# or black makes some arbitrary move (it doesn't matter here) then Nh7+, Ke8, and finally Qxg8# anyway which is still simpler than the "correct" solution.

 

Any other thoughts out there? Has anyone else experienced scenarios that just don't make any logical sense? Maybe it just doesn't make sense to me but I'm interested in hearing what you think. Thanks.

 

Martin_Stahl

Black does not have to take the Queen in your scenario and doesn't have to move the king. The suggested line is the shortest and most forced mate. Generally speaking, a forced mate, in the fewest moves, is the solution, in a mating puzzle.

 

In the line with Qh8, if black moves the queen, an escape square is opened up. Note, I'm not claiming this is black's best line, just a possible one.

 

 

Still losing for black but not mate either.


On the website, you can report puzzles that have multiple solutions and staff can modify them to make one line the obvious correct one. I don't think the app has that feature.

seldingardane

Even then after Kd7 it's Qxf7, Kd8 and finally Qe7#. But that line is the longest, I think. Do you often encounter multiple roads to victory in the puzzles as well?

Martin_Stahl

As I said, my move may not have been the best, and Qa7 would make it longer still.

 

I have ran across some that have alternate, longer mates and others where people have posted about them. It happens sometimes. That is one reason why there is a way to report problem tactics, though unless the mate is close in the number of moves, it might not get modified. 

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Remember that puzzle solutions are forcing moves. Always ask yourself whether the opponent can ignore your move... if they can, then it's not a threat!

As Martin_Stahl points out, black is not compelled to help you checkmate him by capturing the queen. (Queen anywhere except e8 or c6 seems to avoid mate.) In a real game this means calculating moves as if the opponent sees your intentions and is working against you.

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seldingardane wrote:

Do you often encounter multiple roads to victory in the puzzles as well?

Yeah, sometimes in puzzles you can win a piece... but then that's wrong because there's also a mate (or you can win the queen etc). That can be frustrating for sure. Some sites have a safety net. If the engine considers your move to be at least +2 (but it is not the best move) then you don't fail the puzzle, you get a message telling you to try again...

However this can also be very frustrating when you find a mate in 7, a mate in 5, a mate in 4, and you keep getting the message to try again. So you try something weird and fail the puzzle even after finding 3 ways to mate (the solution of mate in 3, for example, involved some bizarre looking sequence).