caro-kann as a white opening

dear members

I AM A LOW RATED BEGINNING PLAYER whose

getting hooked on chess

the question i have is what do you feel about the caro- kann  a  white  opening as  well as a defense? i've always thought it was just a defense for black.

recently, i've been looking at games by GM nigel SHORT  who beat seirawan  with  mineno variation as white 1992 and  karpov as white with the advance variation

thanks i am just throwin this out for discussion

right now as white i play the scotch and as black, i'm learning the caro-kann again e4  and the slav against d4

 GMvasily panov also played the caro-kann as  white

                     THANKS  TONY FROM JERSEY SHORE(antne003)

my email is ( antne003@verizon.net)

if anyone has infoto give me on  scotch ,caro

kann or slav for further  learning

I don't understand. Aren't all 1.e4 players automatically "White Caro-Kann players"? As least once some Black player plays 1...c6.

 dear scarblac,   i don't think so, e4 in the opening prelimary   move that can branch out into many openings, but i felt the  caro kann

was mainly used  as a black defense, not a white opening until i  viewed  gm nigel short an vasily panov's games where they played it as  a white opening

like i said i'm just a beginner, so i 'm sorry if i didn't explain it well enough

                  thanks tony from jersey shore

                 antne003

Do you mean that white plays c3 and uses the caro-like system being white?  I'm not sure I understand :S

As pointed out, black can respond with 1. ... d5. But since you are playing the slav against 1. d4, you can just play a reversed slav.

I think the best you can get from this idea is cutting down the amount of opening junk you need to learn. Get a stable pawn structure, same from both colors and play chess in the middle game and end game.

Only draw back I see is that caro-slav openings have a very positional reputation. Something that is naturally more tactical might do better for your chess development.

why              do you

            talk             like

      this            ?

You're pretty much talking about the London System, which is basically a slav/caro with reverse colours.

Unless you're talking about playing against the Caro-Kann as white, in which case I would recommend the advance variation.

I think you do mean how to play against the Caro-Kann as white. That is, if you play 1. e4 and black responds 1...c6, then what to do. The Advance variation is generally considered strong, as is the Panov-Botvinnik Attack. The trouble with the Advanced is that white can find his pawn chain attacked easily with a c5 push, and a problem with playing the Panov is that white often finds himself defending an isolated d-pawn. They're both good attempts, though.

i  mean  play the caro kann as  a white  opening.

i  mainly am referring to  nigel  short  using caro kann as  white  to beat  seirawan  with  a  variation of the caro  - kann and he also beat  kopov  with caro kann advance variation as white

i'm  sorry i didn't explain myself well as i am not a  senior player

but check nigel short and his [profile on chessgames. com(you will see  if he is playing white, the caro - kann is in his repetoire

that should answer your questions to me

i just asked if it was  possible to use the caro- kann as  white.

                      thanks    tony (antne003)

if caro can, so can u

Hahahahahaha!

I've played the Caro kann occasionally-I usually get a pretty good game, since most lower rated players are unfamiliar with it. It is not as dynamic as the sicilian, so you don't get much in the way of attackung chances. Pretty easy to learn- I have Andy Soltis' book(A chess defense for Black) which explains the main lines-good for a start-though it's now out of date.

Nigel Short played 1.e4 c6 2.Ne2 in his early days, then switched to 2.c4 or 2.d3 in the early 1980s.  Against Seirawan, he tried 2.Nf3 d5 3.Nc3 and won in Barcelona 1989.  Later that year, against Seirawan, he won with 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nc3 h5 5.Bd3.  In the 1990s, Short was playing 2.Ne2 d5 3.e5 c5 4.d4.  In 1996, against Seirawan, he played 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.Nf3 e6 5.Be2 Ne7 6.a3, but that game drew in Amsterdam.  He now seems to be playing 1.e4 c6 2.d4 d5 3.e5 Bf5 4.h4 h5 5.c4 e6 6.Nc3, as in the game Short-Anand 2005 (drawn).  He experimented with 2.f4 in 1998.  At least 100 titled players have played the Caro Kann against Short, with Short winning almost all the games. (Leko, Karpov, and Adams beat him with the Caro Kann in the 1990s).  Short just seems to be good at the Caro as White and introduces novelties, knowing who plays the defense or not.

billwall: you seem to be a fan of Short as White against the Caro-Kann. Is he particularly good against it, or is there another reason for this?

I suppose that 1...e5 could also be played in reponse to 1.c3 in which case 2.d4 would arrive at a similar (but reversed structure) since (unlike in london or reversed slavs) black can play the advance e4. e.g.

The other difference after 1...e5 is that the e pawn can take on d4.

The whole idea does seem a bit generous to black though.

yeah I was thinking it might go like this...

When I first started to read this forum, I thought it was referring to something like this...

All those Caro-Kann games which Nigel Short and others played with the white pieces happened because the black opponent chose Caro-Kann. Thus Nigel Short's first move was 1. e4 and the opponent answered 1... c6.

There is only one Caro-Kann Defense and that is 1.e4 c6.  There is a Caro Variation in the Ponziani (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.c3 d5 4.Qa4 Bd7) and a Caro Variation in the Ruy Lopez (1.e4 e5 2.Nf3 Nc6 3.Bb5 a6 4.Ba4 b5).  It's up to Black to play this defense.  It can transpose into other defenses such as 2.c4 d5 3.d4 or 1.e4 c6 2.d4 g6, Bg7, d6.  Tony, don't worry about the name.  Either play it as Black if you want or learn how to play it as White if someone plays 1...c6 against you.  You have my 500 Caro Kann Miniatures, so look at the variations you play or want to experiment with.  There is no best variation.  Just play what you are comfortable with, avoid the traps, and survive the opening.  Not too many people play the Caro Kann here in my experience.

Yes, that's the misunderstanding here.

After 1.e4 c6, the game is a Caro-Kann. Both White and Black are now playing the Caro-Kann.

There's not really such a thing as a "Black opening", except that in this case, the last move made was Black's, so it was Black's choice to go into this line. You can't choose to play the Caro-Kann as White, since Black could choose e5, c5, or whatever as his second move.