Time manipulation

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Ronald_Aprianto

If you have the issue about time manipulation, you can check a simple case from the games than have been playing by MohammedYassin. He uses a Time Manipulator (engines/software). Check out his profile at http://www.chess.com/members/view/MohammedYassin

Now he is playing bullet and you can follow him (type: /follow MohammedYassin) and observe how the software does!

Irontiger
Ronald_Aprianto wrote:

If you have the issue about time manipulation, you can check a simple case from the games than have been playing by MohammedYassin. He uses a Time Manipulator (engines/software). Check out his profile at http://www.chess.com/members/view/MohammedYassin

Now he is playing bullet and you can follow him (type: /follow MohammedYassin) and observe how the software does!

Quoted in case you wished to edit your 3-month necro violating name-and-shame policy.

QuickBullet69
[COMMENT DELETED]
numbercrunch

this just happened to me and i wasnt disconnected. my opponent had 1 sec to my 6 seconds he was totally lost, down a queen, king was being hunted , etc. his clock ran out to zero, it stopped. next thing i see he has 6 sec and i have lost on time

kleelof

Short time controls + internet = issues

BD-INDIA

I have an excellent connection! It happens only when it is the opponents turn when they are about to lose on time. This is absolutely unfair, and in the 10 minutes game someone is deliberately disconnecting and you are made to lose. Is there a webmaster here seriously monitoring this kind of cheating. 

Lagomorph

Lag...not cheating.

 

If you have a poor internet connection don't play short time controls.

kleelof
BD-INDIA wrote:

someone is deliberately disconnecting and you are made to lose. 

It doesn't work this way. You are misperceiving reality.

TurboFish
kleelof wrote:
BD-INDIA wrote:

someone is deliberately disconnecting and you are made to lose. 

It doesn't work this way. You are misperceiving reality.

Paranoia is the default setting for humans.  It's how evolution adapted us to survive amongst predators.  Better to mistake the sound of rustling leaves for a snake, rather then assume it's just leaves and risk being wrong.

Polar_Bear

You guys don't know what are you talking about. It happens this way: You do not disconnect on purpose and have decent working internet connection, yet the crappy server disconnects you and subtracts your time. Maybe not opponent's cheating, but definitely chess.com's fault and inappropriate handling of the situation.

kleelof
DarklingSalmon wrote:

Following the idea from the last post, some of these complaints would go away if the site did not show the opponents clock ticking down while you were waiting for a move - just the time left on the opponents clock when you get to see the move. It would avoid you seeing it run down to zero, then "suprisingly" getting time put onto it.

It's much more fun for the rest of us watching all the chicken little's running around screaming about cheating.

TurboFish

I understand enough of what the IT guys have explained to realize that their explanation is perfectly consistent with the observed facts.  And the rarety of the complaints of supposed time manipulation doesn't help in making a case for the complaint -- if this problem is serious, why are only a few people mentioning it despite the fact that thousands of games are played daily?

Another strike against the time manipulation claim is that it is claimed to mainly happen when the opponent is about to lose.  More likely it is happenning at random times, but catches one's attention most vividly when it "causes" you to lose (I put "causes" in quotes because the true fault is a poor connection, not chess.com software, as already explained by others).

And the critique of the proposed solution was clearly explained.  The "cure" would be worse than the alleged "disease", ironically making it much easier to actually manipulate the server's time clock.

kleelof
TurboFish wrote:

And the rarety of the complaints of supposed time manipulation doesn't help in making a case for the complaint -- 

It's not a rare thing. It is at least weekly that we hear these guys crying in the forums about 'time cheating' as well as other impossible forms of cheating.

TurboFish
kleelof wrote:
TurboFish wrote:

And the rarety of the complaints of supposed time manipulation doesn't help in making a case for the complaint -- 

It's not a rare thing. It is at least weekly that we hear these guys crying in the forums about 'time cheating' as well as other impossible forms of cheating.

But percentage-wise, relative to the tens of thousands of fast games played weekly, what would it be?  Maybe 0.01%?

kleelof
TurboFish wrote:
kleelof wrote:
TurboFish wrote:

And the rarety of the complaints of supposed time manipulation doesn't help in making a case for the complaint -- 

It's not a rare thing. It is at least weekly that we hear these guys crying in the forums about 'time cheating' as well as other impossible forms of cheating.

But percentage-wise, relative to the tens of thousands of fast games played weekly, what would it be?  Maybe 0.01%?

You were talking about complaints not possible instances of this actually happening.

I'm sure the incedent rate is much lower than the compalint rate.Laughing

kleelof
DarklingSalmon wrote:
TurboFish wrote:

[...]

Another strike against the time manipulation claim is that it is claimed to mainly happen when the opponent is about to lose.  More likely it is happenning at random times, but catches one's attention most vividly when it "causes" you to lose (I put "causes" in quotes because the true fault is a poor connection, not chess.com software, as already explained by others).

[...]

This part is my favorite. When I was a young boy, I thought about a few things very hard and then they happened. These were not things I was at all connected with (like actions in sports games). My working hypothesis became: I could cause things to happen by thinking about them.

Could you think of a lion with millions of dollars?

kleelof
DarklingSalmon wrote:
kleelof wrote: [...]

Could you think of a lion with millions of dollars?

I'll give it a shot - couldn't hurt.

Please don't use the word 'shot'. Frown

SmyslovFan

For what it's worth, V3 seems to deal with lag better than V2. I am not sure, but I think they've implemented timestamp/timeseal for V3. That's how other sites regulate lag.

I'm hoping that the next step will be to keep players with persistently high lag from playing in live tournaments and rated games. It may seem unfair to the player with lag, but it's even more disruptive in a tournament, and their opponents in rated games. Entire tournaments can be held up due to one person having bad lag.

kleelof
SmyslovFan wrote:

I'm hoping that the next step will be to keep players with persistently high lag from playing in live tournaments and rated games. 

This seems to be a fair expectation. You have to keep the expectations of the competition within a reasonable scope.

Robin_Weller

Gleiches Problem mehrfach erlebt.