Chess = calculation

So basically, chess is just calculation/computation.

some people say understanding positional advantage and all

that but after all, chess is a very limited game and computers

beat GM masters. And according to the article, (http://www.businessinsider.com/computers-beating-humans-at-advanced-chess-2013-11)

computers are now as good as GM masters aided by computers. Computers can't beat GM masters in Go because it can't 'think' but just 'calculate'. Thus, we can conclude that chess is not a 'thinking' game but rather, 'calculating game'. (honestly I find competeing who can  computate better is extremely stupid and that's why I don't play chess anymore).

chess is a thinking game. just has less positional, long term strategies. And also has a good element of surprise (hello queen sac). That's why computers win. Simple as that.

 And yet you're here. Odd.

Chess is also a game of nerves and emotion, both of which a computer lacks.

Competing is always about who is better at what, wether it is about computate, calculate, nerves, ball control or other skills doesn't make any difference. But when you think it is stupid then it would be extremely stupid to carry on.

Altough i must admit that some days, just some, i just hate chess also...

The truly great players calculate as the last step in their thinking process. The great players have an inborn ability to just look at a position and see what is the right line to choose. They use calculation only to verify what their talent tells them is there already. It is much more than just calculating like a machine.

Even us lesser gods do that also. Should i already rockade? Wich piece is en price. I should develop my bishop. That knight there might be attacked twice on his next move. 

And after choosing a few moves we calculate (badly often).

Chess-Computers also are full of positional-knowledge. Just check out the source-code of Stockfish. There's a lot of stuff being evaluated in order to find amazingly good quite moves aswell.

Good chess moves can be found with pure calculation, just like good go moves can be found with pure calculation.

But that's now how humans (or computers really) play either game.

It seems you never really played chess by the way, which is fine, not everyone likes it.

Calculation is a type of thinking. 

How this thread reads to me:

Computers can beat chess masters by calculation

Therefore chess is a calculation game

I'm bad at chess because I'm a thinker not a calculator

Therefore chess is stupid, because I'm stupid

 

Irrelevant. Chess is thinking, and until the game of chess is solved it will continue to be thinking, and I don't see chess solved in the next 2 centuries. Calculation is simply moves, and without thought the moves will have no meaning. Thinking gives us the ability to set up a trap when we're on the brink on losing while calculation is just finding the move that will prolong the defeat. Computers just evaluate the position based on algorithyms. Consider many of those theoretical draws. Some engines might still say that such side is winning because they are just calculating moves rather than thinking of a plan. 

and @ GodLike, That's exactly how I read it too...

As a software engineer, I can definitely support the claim that computers are stupid. They can technically only do four things: take input, give output, store data ("remember"), and perform calculations. There's no magic to it. Anyone with a pencil and some paper (albeit, a lot of paper in some cases) could just step through the lines of a program one at a time and follow the same procedure the computer follows to arrive at exactly the same result.

Of course, it would take a fair bit longer for the person to do it compared to the computer, but the person has the advantage of understanding what the results mean and why they're following those steps.

i only calculate in bullet, any other time control it is intution

It's not possible only to calculate because chess is exponential. Computers can calculate very deeply only in forced variations and when material is limited. For example Deep Blue against Kasparov had 900 positional parameters which were adjusted quite long time. After the match Kasparov said that probably it's possible to teach a computer to play well. Modern programs also have this kind of position knowledge. They also have opening and endgame tables. So chess it's not only about calculation.

There are many fine chess players that play amazing chess without seemingly thinking. You can watch Danny and others talk about a movie he saw and win a game of blitz seemingly without stopping to consider a single move. I am talking about beating a 2500+ player at blitz.

I am getting stronger. These days I can make moves with a whole lot less calculation then when I was 1500. I remember always thinking "if I take that and he takes that then I take that". Often I would get it wrong and lose. These day a single glance often tells me, or I just play it because I know it is right. Once or twice a game I stop and actually calculate. 

I can only guess but it sure seems like good players have a huge amount of knowledge and do most chess playing intuitively. We are not computers for sure, If I have this much intuition at 1700 I can only imagine what a 2500 would have. I think so much that much of their games are intuition maybe checked by calculation when needed. Any high level player confirm this?

I am not going to say computers are studpid because I would be awful to loose to something stupid. I am not going to say that Chess is not thinking but just calculation.

Chess is a thinking game and solutions can be found in many ways. So just because computers use brute force to come to solutions, doesn't mean to you should say humans do too. Because in reality we can't. Human beings can't calculate 250 million moves per second as Deeper Blue. Why was Kasparov able to match the monster, because he was able to judge the position and calculated moves that met the position while ensuring that Deeper Blue's powerful replys don't result in his blunder.

Furthermore, computers nowadays don't do pure calculating or rather search of the Chess map. Alot of heuristics are programmed into them. Your PC can't even calculate 400,000 positions per second and that is less than two three full moves. Not even Deeper Blue was completely Brute forcing the positions and had an opening book and other heuristics to aid it.

Chess is so vast that, if computer was to simply bruteforce the position with only the Heuristic of piece value, it would always loose. Not to mention a computer trying to play Chess only knowing how the piece movement and aim of the game, like how all human beings start out.

On a well developed AI you can't distinguish this anymore.