Chess clock placement

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isabela14

I'm right handed and would like the clock on my right side. Also, can I move the pieces with my left and press the clock with my right hand simultaneously to save time? Any rules regarding these?

Tigersushi7777

I think so, here is what I found just on wikipedia : (and read nothing about a rule not permitting one hand for the clock and an other for pieces)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_chess :

Under "4 Equipment" :
Before the start of the game, either the arbiter decides, or whomever is playing Black, where the chess clock is placed.
Under "3 Competition rules
3.1 Act of moving the pieces
3.2 Touch-move rule" :
(Maybe read it for other things...)

Nothing relevant here :
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_clock
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Time_control

Tigersushi7777

I'm a right-hander too but I prefer having the clock on the left side, for me the left hand is "the hand of patience" (ex.: when I smoke, usually I smoke slower) and the right one is more the hand of action (so more precise).

Moving pieces with the left hand feels strange to me, but will try it lol
I suppose it's probably better to adapt yourself to all th variations possible with the aim not to be disturbed by such questions later, in the long term wink.png
After "JustAverageSkill's" comment Learning to use one hand is maybe the best thing, cuz even if you loose (by physical moving) some time it maybe helps structurating the brains thought process (the little time between moving a piece and going on the clock demands less thinking ; and during this time maybe you could suddetly notice if ever you just made a stupid mistake for example ; the hand moves quickly above the board before hitting the clock, it's maybe a bit like closing the eyes for one second every time..)

isabela14

I just read an article here that GM Anand used both hands and according to article, he violated a chess rule and "should" have lost the game or given a warning. 

Martin_Stahl

For placement,  it goes on the side the TD/arbiter wants it. 

 

If  there isn't a requirement,  usually black decides placement. 

 

As others have posted, you should move and hit the clock with the same hand. Using both hands can get a penalty.

OldChessDog

"16C1. Using the clock. Each player must operate the clock with the same hand that moves the pieces." From U.S. Chess Federation's Official Rules of Chess, 6th Edition (p 69).

isabela14

I never thought that Chess rules would be as complicated as Golf. How does using both hands change the position or outcome of the board? Isn't it that the movement of the pieces are the sole basis of wether the move is illegal or not? GM Wesley So, was also disqualified one time for writing notes of self encouragement during a game. Of course, that is another story.

OldChessDog

Tell me about it! The book from the title page to the index is 369 pages long ;-) 

doublebanzai

tournament director might determine all clocks face a certain way, so that they're all visible from an aisle, etc... but black chooses which side of the board the clock IS on. so if you the players have to switch sides of the table to accommodate black's wishes, they do that. so, black chooses. unless black is late. then it's up to white, if white was there on time.........etc.... i'm right handed, but prefer the clock on the left. just to mess with the opponent.  

omnipaul
isabela14 wrote:

I never thought that Chess rules would be as complicated as Golf. How does using both hands change the position or outcome of the board? Isn't it that the movement of the pieces are the sole basis of wether the move is illegal or not? GM Wesley So, was also disqualified one time for writing notes of self encouragement during a game. Of course, that is another story.

One might make a claim that a move was not completed before the clock was hit if you use different hands for each step (whether true or not, and I can certainly see it getting close if the reason you are using different hands is to reduce the amount of time between making the move and hitting your clock).  If you use the same hand, then you must let go of the piece on the square before moving your hand to hit the clock, and so there is a clear order that it will happen in.

isabela14

369 pages? Holy cow!!! I was thinking 2 pages just like the Ten Commandments. Something like, thou shall not move the Pawn backwards. @doublebanzai, you stated, it is the Tournament Director discretion But can be over ruled by the player with black pieces, But if the black piece player is late, then the white piece player controls clock placement. I find these amusing if it's all true. To all Chess Gurus, could you please clarify and educate? Thanks.

FaceCrusher

Traditionally, black chooses the side the clock is placed on. This is a small advantage to mitigate the small advantage white gets with first move. For the big games online between the world's top, it seems to be the clock is placed in view of the camera so people can see the time, probably regardless of players wishes. 

universityofpawns

It doesn't make any difference to me, I blunder equally well with either hand.

FaceCrusher
universityofpawns wrote:

It doesn't make any difference to me, I blunder equally well with either hand.

 

Well said. Since the clock will wind up on the other side of the hall broken after I throw it in the end, it does not much matter where it starts out. 

OldChessDog

@FaceCrusher--LOL!!! I can relate to that! ;-)

isabela14

Lol....that would be one heck of clock placement.

MickinMD
gyula7777 wrote:

I think so, here is what I found just on wikipedia : (and read nothing about a rule not permitting one hand for the clock and an other for pieces)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_chess :

WRONG!  You MUST hit the clock with the same hand you hit the pieces. I say that as someone who has played OTB and also been a USCF Tournament Director.  Don't go by Wiki: it is often wrong!

To answer the clock placement question: unless the organizer pre-determines clock positions and/or equipment, it is black's choice as to which side of the board to put the clock and which board and set to use.  Here are the USCF Official Rules, which agree with FIDE rules:

USCF Rule 16-C1, Using the Clock. Each player must operate the clock with the same hand that moves the pieces.

USCF Rule 16L: Possible Stipulations. The director may require that clocks face a certain direction or that black or white sit at a particular side of the table. In the absence of such a requirement, unless black is late arriving at the start of the game, black decides which side of the board the clock is on, and the player arriving first may choose either side of the table to sit on.

USCF Rule 39A. Choice of equipment....If the organizer does not provide one or more elements of equipment [clocks, boards, sets], the players should agree on any that meets the standards or, failing such agreement, play with black's choice if it meets the standards. If black does not provide standard equipment and white does, black does not have the right to delay the start of the game to search for alternative equipment...

OldChessDog

Not using Wiki is great advice. Always go to a primary source, as MickenMD has done.

Tigersushi7777
MickinMD a écrit :
gyula7777 wrote:

I think so, here is what I found just on wikipedia : (and read nothing about a rule not permitting one hand for the clock and an other for pieces)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Rules_of_chess :

WRONG!  You MUST hit the clock with the same hand you hit the pieces. I say that as someone who has played OTB and also been a USCF Tournament Director.  Don't go by Wiki: it is often wrong!

To answer the clock placement question: unless the organizer pre-determines clock positions and/or equipment, it is black's choice as to which side of the board to put the clock and which board and set to use.  Here are the USCF Official Rules, which agree with FIDE rules:

USCF Rule 16-C1, Using the Clock. Each player must operate the clock with the same hand that moves the pieces.

USCF Rule 16L: Possible Stipulations. The director may require that clocks face a certain direction or that black or white sit at a particular side of the table. In the absence of such a requirement, unless black is late arriving at the start of the game, black decides which side of the board the clock is on, and the player arriving first may choose either side of the table to sit on.

USCF Rule 39A. Choice of equipment....If the organizer does not provide one or more elements of equipment [clocks, boards, sets], the players should agree on any that meets the standards or, failing such agreement, play with black's choice if it meets the standards. If black does not provide standard equipment and white does, black does not have the right to delay the start of the game to search for alternative equipment...

Thank you, even if with everything above we already could get responses, but it's nice to have everything clearly on one message happy.png

- I would just have one question (because I just joined a chess-club..) : so, is it possible to permutate hands for each move ?

- And when you say "The director may require that clocks face a certain direction" > is this to make it easier for others to look at the board and to less disturb the players by turning around them ? or if ever the scene would be filmed, to make it easier for journalists ? or against the sun, if ever it would shine on the clocks and make the reading more difficult ??...

jsaepuru

From what I understand - yes, all parts of the same move (such as moving captured piece, moving king and rook, moving promoted piece) including pressing the clock must be done with the same hand, but same player may use a different hand for next move.

Allowing black to decide which side of the table he´d sit on according to his convenience like placement of clock would seem like a sensible compensation for the disadvantage of moving second.