chess vs. checkers

Here's one problem:

Checkers is more like Tic Tac Toe.  It's a game that has been figured out all the way to a draw.

Chess, while a draw is theoretically what should happen with perfect play, has yet to be proven.  There may still be a forced win for White, or White may even be in Zugzwang on move 1 and it's a forced win for Black.  While neither are likely, it has yet to be proven, unlike Checkers or Tic Tac Toe.

Even Though their are strong checker engines out their that can find the best moves to a draw. I have personally beat some of them and some of the weaker engines. A few years ago the strongest checker engine had an error which if you was good checker player you could exploit and win they have recently changed it. So now I can't win lol but I can draw it.

The picture of the man above is by the man by the name of Ph. D. GM Marion Franklin Tinsely. He was the strongest checkers player to have ever existed in checkers. He was a World Champion from 1955–1958 and 1975–1991.

He played checkers professionally for a total of 45 years and he only lost 7 games 2 of them were against a computer.

He never lost a  championship match. In fact the only way he lost his chamionship crown was by voluntarily relinquish it. From the yeras of 1958-1975 he stopped playing for some years so he relinquished it lol No one could beat him than when he returned to chess he won it back and held it until he quit playing professionally in 1991. When he relinquished it again.

He beat the strongest chess engines in 1990's  4 games to 2  which was the 2 losses against the computer lol only lost 5 games against humans in a span of 45 years.

No chess player has ever been able to do that and no checker players has either lol.

Does he play chess? I was wondering if he was a chess grand master. "No one could beat him then when he returned to chess"

I'm sorry for my confusion their I guess.

What I mean to say is he lost 5 games to several humans in a checkers professional career span of 45 years. He also lost 2 games to checkers engine in 1990's.

However, none of his losses were in World Championship matches. He was Undefeated in World Championship Matches.

He dominated checkers for a long time and was World Champion between between 1955–1958  after which in 1958-1975. He withdrew from championship play only and relinquished his title to other people. He didn't lose his title. he simply just gave it up lol. He didn't start playing World Championship Matches again until 1975 than he won it again and was World Champion again from 1975-1991.

In 1991 he retired from checkers. He died a few years later so maybe he was having some health issues around that time. He died in Texas on April 3, 1995.

Yeah I don't think he played chess but I'm not sure. Sorry for the confusion. Its just really tough to image some1 playing 45 years and only losing 7 times and 2 against a machine not even a person lol. lol Every 9 years or so he lost 1 game lol when you think about it.

45 year span only 5 losses against human its like every 9 years you lose only 1 time. That is why he is remembered as the greatest.

That's true if you're a computer, but as a human we make mistakes. I play in a draughts club. There aren't many of us. In fact very few - I think it's a great game. The onus on the draughts/checkers player is to see deeper because the candidate moves are less. Draughts is more exact than chess and a one slip up is usually unrecoverable against a good player.

Wow. Only 5 loses to humans in 45 years of professional checkers!!. After reading your post I read about him in Wikipedia. It says that he was so amiable and simple and he always like to teach novices about checkers.

Yeah I use to play checkers alot. However, I stopped becuase not many people play checkers it not as popular as chess is. Like their is no career in checkers lol. At least in chess their is some hope if you become very good.

In Chess if you become among the elite than you can play chess as a living for example but in checkers even the number 1 ranked player has to have other job's lol because it doesn't make as much in checkers.

Most checker players who have played for a long time know about Tinsley. He is like a checkers legend. Almost like how chess has legendary players and previoius World Champions.

Their is a funny story about Tinsley he played against a computer engine and the computer made a move and he told the progammers who were near the engine " Computer going to regret that move". He said something like that. The engine made a move and he found the only continuation to claim the victory. It was like a 30+ move combination. Many years later engines got stronger and they did a review on that game and they said Tinsley played the only line that let him win. The continuation he saw was a total of 64 moves from both sides into the future. That is how deep he saw the line.

The engine he played against was considered ranked number 2 in the world at the time he beat it with a final score of 4 wins - 2 losses

Which is how his total losses in his career got to 7 losses total. 2 where engine games. He was a remarkable person very gifted.

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chess is wayyy better than checkers

 

Great to see a thread on Tinsely. He was a great guy. When I got into checkers briefly years ago I read about him. Checkers is a very skilful game but sadly like someone said earlier, not many people play it well now. Also it has been "solved" by a super computer called Chinook. It was possible to do this because the captures are forced and the board is basically half the size of a chess board as you only play on the black squares. That said, it is by no means an easy game just because it has been solved. To all intents and purposes chess is now in the hands of computer programs that are infallible against humans, so people shouldn't judge checkers harshly.

In fact here is a recent article about it mentioning Tinsely.

https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2017/07/marion-tinsley-checkers/534111/

hey i just joined what going on

 

don't join don't move you f-pawn, the guy who made it is my bro he isn't experienced online and is very young he is pretty rude online soz don't join it he is pretty mean online he might get reported and i don't want that to happen me and my dad are trying to stop him from doing this ty

When all the kids my age were starting to play checkers, I was playing chess.
I have been playing chess for years, and I can count on one hand how many times I've actually played checkers.
I know a guy who swears by checkers, and he challenged me to a game of checkers. I graciously accepted.
So I played it just like I would chess (as much as checkers would allow). I sacrificed double jumps to get this piece exactly where it needed to go…
He was "ahead" the whole time, but then he got to the point where he just kept losing prices, and more pieces, and kinged checkers and more.
After twenty minutes he was staring into defeat.
That was game number five of checkers for me.
I know there are people who treat checkers like I try to do with chess… they are two similar games but they are so far apart from each other it's crazy!

In checkers, half the board is a waste lol.

well you do have a point the first two moves are basically a waste and that makes them really hard but i's rate myself at chess: really good and checkers: pretty bad and i also really like chess and checkers is really good but i'd say that chess wins

Checkers and Draughts are great, deep games and take a lot of knowledge to play expertly.  But if you want the ultimate in checkers, games with the complexity of chess and that has a low rate of draws, look up Christian Freeling's game of Dameo.  You can also look at my own game of Pommel, the hexagonal version of which is described on Freeling's website Mindsport but which can also be played with standard checkers and board.

i don't want to be mean but you guys are getting a little off topic here...this is chess vs checkers not anything else

Only using half the board makes Draughts (English) Checkers (American) automatically less "difficult" than chess, much like Chess is less "difficult" compared to Go. 

Likewise all of these games have expert exponents but how do you compare them where the dynamics are so different?

checkers is too easy for both players which makes it different because of the rule if you can take then take so it's easy to take the queen whereas chess isn't so fair because recently i heard that white has a little bit higher chance of winning which ruins it so yaah

 

Have started a new club here and invite anyone interested in Checkers or Draughts to join the club.

https://www.chess.com/club/checkers-and-draughts-enthusiasts