Chessmaster personalities

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p8q
Jonschesschannel wrote:
SunPrarieWI wrote:

Very cool.

Any other adjustment recommendations for this engine?


Apparently you can import engines (like Stockfish) into Chessmaster, but it's a bit complex and I don't know how to do it.

Also, I found that Attacker/Material personalities tend to do better... in moderation, of course.

According to my experience it's easier to import Chessmaster personalities and engine into Arena than other engines into Chessmaster.

SunPrarieWI

I can import import current UCI engines into Chessmaster and Chessmatrer engines or other WB engines into fritz.

It was a LONG arduous trial and error process but so worth it. 

My main goal now is to somehow mimic playing styles of recent and current grandmaster players by adjusting engine parameters. Nakamura, Carlsen, etc... 

I found one post on this topic at chess2u site by a member called castle00.  Unfortunately its a couple years old and they have not responded.

 

 

p8q
SunPrarieWI wrote:

I can import import current UCI engines into Chessmaster and Chessmatrer engines or other WB engines into fritz.

It was a LONG arduous trial and error process but so worth it. 

My main goal now is to somehow mimic playing styles of recent and current grandmaster players by adjusting engine parameters. Nakamura, Carlsen, etc... 

I found one post on this topic at chess2u site by a member called castle00.  Unfortunately its a couple years old and they have not responded.

 

 

Nice! congratulations, i know it's hard, but really worth it.

About how to extract the parameters of Chessmaster personalities to import them into Arena (and also Fritz i suppose) you can ask me, i'm doing it using Crafty engine, it's quite simple once you know how to do it. But quite complicated if you have to learn how shock.png

If you have found the right parameters for current GMs, please, could you share them with us here? happy.png 

In this website you can get the parameters for the Chessmaster personalities that played in CCRL list:

http://kirill-kryukov.com/chess/discussion-board/viewtopic.php?f=7&t=3054

There are other personalities you can copy from there that could be interesting for you.

It's curious that Archangel personality in the CCRL list is stronger than Chessmaster default personality:

CM11 Archangel (Wael Deeb)

myp=116 myn=120 myb=120 myr=120 myq=124 opp=116 opn=120 opb=120 opr=120 opq=124 mycc=124 mymob=124 myks=154 mypp=118 mypw=118 opcc=124 opmob=124 opks=154 oppp=118 oppw=118 avd=0 sel=21 cfd=0

By the way, I found an article about Magnus Carlsen style of play, i hope it's helpful for setting the parameters:

https://www.chess.com/blog/ThummimS/the-playing-style-of-magnus-carlsen#:~:text=Carlsen%20had%20an%20aggressive%20style,to%20offer%20material%20for%20activity%22.

(plus he always said he's not a pawn grabber).

I tried to create a personality that plays romantic style, but i don't know if i did it right, it was easy to beat the couple of times i tried, even though i set it to highest strength of play, maybe because it's working ok and romantic style is inferior to positional chess? I set the gambits oppening book that already came with CM (Gambit.obk), i don't know if there's an oppening book about romantic style somewhere on the internet.

I share it here in case you are interested:

opp=30 opn=300 opb=300 opr=300 opq=231 myp=30 myn=198 myb=198 myr=240 myq=198 mycc=0 mymob=21 myks=5 mypp=66 mypw=2 opcc=0 opmob=21 opks=94 oppp=66 oppw=2 cfd=-500 sop=100 avd=-100 rnd=5 sel=16 md=99

 

SunPrarieWI

Thanks for the response p8q!

Cool to find someone interested in this as well.

I was playing dedicated chess computer boards alone back in the 80's pre internet ( think Radio Shack models), but when Chessmaster 5000 came out in for windows 95 it was huge.! So part of messing around with this program is reliving my past.   

I have tried to come up with my own idea of how some newer players could be created by adjusting values but seriously its only guesswork and I suppose a grandmaster like Larry Evans who helped create the personalities in the program would have better intuition on how to mimic the style of play they use now.  Should email him but how?!

The players opening book is probably most of the real accuracy anyway.

By the way I can create opening books of the new players by downloading PGN files off the internet and then using CM9000 which has the last version to have a .PGN to .OBK editor. Keep it in .OBK for Chessmaster or I can convert to .CTG from OBK in Fritz itself.  Its a little tricky but you have to create for white and then for black separately. Otherwise you just get that player and all their opponents openings.  Close but no cigar.  Have you ever downloaded your own PGN games and create an opening book of yourself.   I did, its a Mindf***!

Maybe Ill give it another attempt.

 

EscherehcsE
SunPrarieWI wrote:

<snip>

I suppose a grandmaster like Larry Evans who helped create the personalities in the program would have better intuition on how to mimic the style of play they use now.  Should email him but how?!

<snip>

Sadly, Larry Evans passed away in 2010.

p8q
SunPrarieWI wrote:

<snip>

By the way I can create opening books of the new players by downloading PGN files off the internet and then using CM9000 which has the last version to have a .PGN to .OBK editor. Keep it in .OBK for Chessmaster or I can convert to .CTG from OBK in Fritz itself.  Its a little tricky but you have to create for white and then for black separately. Otherwise you just get that player and all their opponents openings.  Close but no cigar.  Have you ever downloaded your own PGN games and create an opening book of yourself.   I did, its a Mindf***!

Maybe Ill give it another attempt.

<snip>

 

woow! i didn't know that! Then i'm going to look for .pgn from the romantic period of chess to make .obk for my romantic style CM personality happy.png 

I have around 7500 games from Caissabase (4 million games) from the year 1610 to 1880. Is there a limit for the number of games to generate the .obk? The more games the better? In this case it's ok if i don't separate white from black, right? since this personality will be a compendium of all romantic period chess players style in general... (I know, more than a personality is a tendency). I have to be careful not to include Morphy, since he was a positional player (according to a book i've read from Karpov, thus the reason he beated everybody).

So if you need the database for finding pgns tell me, ok? As far as i know that database i downloaded is the most complete. It's updated all the way to the year 2020 (from 1610 ). So, you can do those books for modern GMs players (Carlsen, Caruana, etc.), plus setting the parameters...

Well, about the parameters, i suppose learning about their style of play, and then setting the parameters intuitively should be enough at the beginning... i suppose... for example: for Carslen i would lower the value of pawns to less than 100 centipawns... maybe to 80 centipawns... If he's agressive or not is an easy parameter, though CM confused "aggressiveness" with "simplification" (for CM to be aggressive means to take any piece at first sight, which is not aggressiveness actually, according to what @EscherehcsE said once on a forum (thank you @EscherehcsE)).

So you could keep doing like that with the rest of parameters. The problem is that we need to be really good chess players to determine if the style of play corresponds to what we wanted to achieve (off course, a GM would be perfect for this), but here in chess.com you can find good enough players (more than 2300 rating could be enough?) that love Chessmaster and could accept to collaborate, so you don't need Larry Evans himself (it's impossible to contact him now).

Then, after setting the parameters and the openning book, the +2300 rated player plays with the personality in CM and then he tells you, for example: "it needs to take more control of the center... or it needs to be more positional than tactical.... " etc. Then you readjust the parameters according to the feedback until the +2300 player feels it's mimicking correctly the personality.

To find the +2300 player, you could create a forum and call it something like: "Needed +2300 rated players for this Project: creation of modern personalities for Chessmaster". Something like that.

Then, i hope someone will read that forum and answer, and you could even get more than one +2300 player for better feedback. The only thing they have to do is to play a couple of games and tell you if they feel the personality corresponds to the goal, so it's not a big load of work for them, so i think they would be happy to collaborate.

There is also a forum where i have seen chess engine programmers talking about creating personalities, about chess engines in general, here:

http://www.talkchess.com/forum3/viewtopic.php?f=2&t=66042&sid=36dc92d947f152753f00be456817360f

you can see Pawel Koziol (username PK), the creator of Rodent IV engine (an engine that works with personalities), talking with the creator of OpenTal 1.1 (the engine based on Rodent IV, but modified to mimic Mikhail Tal personality). Maybe you can PM them in that forum, or send them an e-mail, since they must understand very well how to successfully set personalities, not only for CM, they must know a way to check if they created the personality accurately.

So, maybe you could also find help there. You could try both at the same time, chess.com and that site.

Anyways, tell me if you have been successful or if i can help with something else, ok?  thumbup.png

(And when you finish with the personalities, please, let me know and share, i really would like to play vs those personalities! happy.png ).

 

SunPrarieWI

I don't know the number limit of .OBK book file.  I'm thinking no limit.

Yes if you don't enter the corresponding white then black repertoire like an individual player would use then you just get a book based on all games played with everyone else. Not player specific.  So in this case a group of games by many people against that one player.  Or for example an opening book from a tournament with many players.

 I wanted to create a Deep Blue book but it only played a few games in 1997 then was dismantled so not much excitement there.  A few games also in the 1996 match but that was Deep thought.  Another book I wanted to create was a Turk book from that old "man - made" invention in the 18th and 19th century but I read there were a few separate players over the years involved.  Also all the games are not in a database ( a handful are in Chessmaster but not enough to simulate).  There is a real physical book I've yet to acquire that does apparently list all of them.  BTW the game it played against Napoleon Bonaparte is interesting.

Ill mess around with the settings more and see what I come up with. Not so much interested in random creations, more so an emulation of current top players as I mentioned.  Just don't know who is interested or would put the energy into it and are truly capable of creating or recommending settings based on chess knowledge and Style of the top players. I'm not at that level of play.

One thing you got to try is downloading your PGN file of all your games. Whether they be from this site or Lichess or wherever and then you must do the white input then a black input to create your personal opening book based on those games played.. Its a trip really!  Then the amazing part is what if you could adjust the parameters to your own style of play. You get the point.

 

 

p8q
SunPrarieWI wrote:

I don't know the number limit of .OBK book file.  I'm thinking no limit.

Yes if you don't enter the corresponding white then black repertoire like an individual player would use then you just get a book based on all games played with everyone else. Not player specific.  So in this case a group of games by many people against that one player.  Or for example an opening book from a tournament with many players.

 I wanted to create a Deep Blue book but it only played a few games in 1997 then was dismantled so not much excitement there.  A few games also in the 1996 match but that was Deep thought.  Another book I wanted to create was a Turk book from that old "man - made" invention in the 18th and 19th century but I read there were a few separate players over the years involved.  Also all the games are not in a database ( a handful are in Chessmaster but not enough to simulate).  There is a real physical book I've yet to acquire that does apparently list all of them.  BTW the game it played against Napoleon Bonaparte is interesting.

Ill mess around with the settings more and see what I come up with. Not so much interested in random creations, more so an emulation of current top players as I mentioned.  Just don't know who is interested or would put the energy into it and are truly capable of creating or recommending settings based on chess knowledge and Style of the top players. I'm not at that level of play.

One thing you got to try is downloading your PGN file of all your games. Whether they be from this site or Lichess or wherever and then you must do the white input then a black input to create your personal opening book based on those games played.. Its a trip really!  Then the amazing part is what if you could adjust the parameters to your own style of play. You get the point.

 

 

That would be interesting, creating a personality of myself for CM

Yes, i can see, there's no limit in number of games, but not enough games would be an issue. Unfortunately we only have a few games from Napoleon to create that personality...

Jonschesschannel

Thanks guys

Cobra2721

Just a question how many personalities is there? And is there a Mikhail Tal personality?

drmrboss
Cobra2721 wrote:

Just a question how many personalities is there? And is there a Mikhail Tal personality?

200+ Personalities. ( With custom option, there are thousands)

Yes, it includes Tal.

 

Cobra2721

Just wish that they still sold it..

Cobra2721
drmrboss wrote:
Cobra2721 wrote:

Just a question how many personalities is there? And is there a Mikhail Tal personality?

200+ Personalities. ( With custom option, there are thousands)

Yes, it includes Tal.

 

Do you have it?

drmrboss
Cobra2721 wrote:
drmrboss wrote:
Cobra2721 wrote:

Just a question how many personalities is there? And is there a Mikhail Tal personality?

200+ Personalities. ( With custom option, there are thousands)

Yes, it includes Tal.

 

Do you have it?

I had several series 3000, 5500, 7000,8000, 9000, Grandmaster editions. The best chess program that turned me from amateur to advanced player.

 

I dont use them anymore. I now use Stockfish or Leela.

drmrboss

Nordlandia

I find the Akiba Rubinstein personality to be one of the better in the last GM edition. Anyone to add anything worth mention will be appreciated. 

x-1230675851

To Make Magnus Carlsen Personality Settings For Chessmaster Grandmaster Edition You Need To Follow These Steps...

Name: Carlsen

Opening Book: CMX.obk

Rating: 2864 Elo

Attack/Defense: 0

Strength of Player: 100

Material/Positional: 15

Randomness: 0

Max Search Depth: 99

Selective Search: 9

Contempt of Draw: 2.0

Transportation Table: 32 MB

Pondering (Active), Use Endgame Databases (Active).

Own Control of Center: 105
Opposing Control of Center: 105

Own Mobility: 110
Opposing Mobility: 110

Own King Safety: 95
Opposing King Safety: 95

Own Passed Pawns: 105
Opposing Passed Pawns: 105

Own Pawn Weakness: 115
Opposing Pawn Weakness: 115

Own Queen: 9.0
Opposing Queen: 9.0

Own Rook: 5.1
Opposing Rook: 5.0

Own Bishop: 3.1
Opposing Bishop: 3.0

Own Knight: 3.0
Opposing Knight: 3.0

Own Pawn: 1.0
Opposing Pawn: 1.0

Short Playing Style: Positional player.

SunPrarieWI

Woah.

Thank you!

I will try this. How about Nakamura?

x-1230675851

Garry Kasparov Personality Settings For Chessmaster Grandmaster Edition...

Name: Kasparov

Opening Book: KasparovG.obk/ CMX.obk

Rating: 2851 Elo

Attack/Defense: 0

Strength of Player: 100

Material/Positional: 0

Randomness: 0

Max Search Depth: 99

Selective Search: 14

Contempt of Draw: -0.2

Transportation Table: 32 MB

Pondering (Active), Use Endgame Databases (Active).

Own Control of Center: 107
Opposing Control of Center: 100

Own Mobility: 120
Opposing Mobility: 100

Own King Safety: 150
Opposing King Safety: 100

Own Passed Pawns: 102
Opposing Passed Pawns: 100

Own Pawn Weakness: 102
Opposing Pawn Weakness: 100

Own Queen: 9.2
Opposing Queen: 9.0

Own Rook: 5.1
Opposing Rook: 5.0

Own Bishop: 3.0
Opposing Bishop: 3.0

Own Knight: 3.0
Opposing Knight: 3.0

Own Pawn: 1.0
Opposing Pawn: 1.0

Short Playing Style: Mobile, Active.

SunPrarieWI

Thank you so much for your help!!!