It is possible, but very unlikely.
Furthermore, it implies that the opponent isn't a good player,because he would overlook the (probably) block +discovered checkmate.
So, it may look great to beginners, but lame to a decent check players. I would always prefer a nice forcing combination (from seemingly losing position) with lot of sacrifices that end in a mate. Something like Vidmar vs. Euwe , Karlowy Vary (I think),let me find it and I'll post it here.
Thank you for your input Dragec.
I was afraid it would be too unlikely of a move. If you could craft this senario it would be awesome and exactly the type of thing we need to get this scene right.
Your help is really appreciated!
If your king is in check, you must end the check. You must do this either by moving the king to a safe square, capturing the piece that is checking the king, or interposing a piece between the checking piece and the king. No other moves are legal. The only way for the situation you describe to happen would be for one side to check with a bishop, queen, or rook. For the checked player to answer with a knight move he would have to be interposing the piece between the king and the checking piece, or capture the checking piece. If the knight simultaneously gave check, the first player would then be required to do one of the three options legal to respond to a check, move the king to a safe square, capture the knight, or interpose, but because of the knights unusual move you can't interpose a piece.
If the first player's check could be countered simply by capturing with the knight he is a pretty lousy player.
If the first players check can be countered by interposing a knight, that knight could be then captured by the piece that originally gave check.
The only way I could see this working is if when the knight moves it gives check to the king, interposes between the original checking piece and its own king, and at the same time creates a discovered check. Meaning there was another piece like a bishop, rook, or queen that now also attacks the king's square. Just capturing the knight isn't enough, because the other piece is giving check as well. The only option would be to move the king to a safe square. If there isn't one, it would be checkmate.
The odds of this coming up in a real game is about 9 gazillion to one. Its technically possible, but it would be very hard to even cook up a position like this for a composition, let alone come across one in a real game. And unless you explain the situation on screen somehow, 99% of your audience will not have a clue what happened.
OK, I will try to create your scenario, this is funny and unrealistic scenario with blocking+discovered epaulette mate. Probably someone can imagine a more realistic situation, but again, overlooking that your own king is in danger of being mated wouldn't make this "movie game" praised by the chess players.
And your scenario is also unlikely because every chess player (except for beginners) know that you don't check for check’s sake, it does not achieve anything.
This is an interesting khpa21. Thank you. I like your thinking on this and the seneario you provided is very compelling.
However if there is a way for a similar situation with a knight on the winning side being left on the board (or better yet utilized in the final moves) then it would be ideal -- as the title of the "Wooden Horse" has multiple means in the film, and using the knight piece would echo this sentment as well.
Thank you.
Dragec,
Thank you for posting this. However as you said it was unlikely, I have sort of abandoned the idea of a one move check counter/checkmate.
If we can come put with a nice (and believable) senario for too expert chess players which results in the hero getting a checkmate using the knight piece, that would be absolutely perfect as it will be realistic and have the symbolism the film needs.
Will this work? ....Rd7+, Nd6#
And here is the great game I was talking about, it seems that white can not stop the mate threat.
Or perhaps he can?
Softademon,
Thanks for the breakdown. I was think that yes, but blocking with the knight, with would also open the line of sight on other pieces for an mate on the king.
However after you, and everyone else here have stated that this is next to impossible to do in a real game, I am willing to abandon the idea of a single move check block/checkmate.
What I think is the best solution is a come from behind checkmate which involves the knight piece in the final (or second to final) move by the winner. This way the symbobic use of the knight (the horse) and a message of never giving up hope.
Pat, in the Vidmar - Euwe game, "horse" have a vital role of supporting the queen and covering the king's escape squares for a rook checkmate.
And the most common knight mate is smothered mate, famous example is so called Philidor legacy, it also involves a queen sacrifice.
It's absolutely viable and solid example, and great for beginners, but a piece of common knowledge of good chess players. So they wouldn't look at it as a brilliant combination(I think this is what you try to achieve), just a repetition of an old pattern.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Smothered_mate
And Legal Trap(with queen sacrifice) ends with a knight mate.
Again, this would be too much for experienced player to fall for:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Italian_Game,_L%C3%A9gal_Trap
And here is the great game I was talking about, it seems that white can not stop the mate threat.
Or perhaps he can?
This is very interesting. So in this actual game, the black resigned (as in quit) before the final move because he saw it coming, correct? However if they had played on it would have resulted in the mate.
Just trying to clarify.
And there is a Caro Kann trap with knight mate, and famous Blackburne shilling gambit.
And here is the great game I was talking about, it seems that white can not stop the mate threat.
Or perhaps he can?
This is very interesting. So in this actual game, the black resigned (as in quit) before the final move because he saw it coming, correct? However if they had played on it would have resulted in the mate.
Just trying to clarify.
Yes, he saw it coming so he resigned, grandmasters usually see it several moves ahead, obviously he didn't see it at a first sacrifice.
Dragec,
Thanks for all of these references.
I don't want the game to seem too amatuerish, so I'd rather go the route of a classic game which involved best use of a knight in a mate (or just prior to a mate.)
I want pros like you guys to appreciate the move, just like the historians and military buffs will appreciate the accuracy of the uniforms, clothes and settings.
I am open to picking the most bindblowing and sophisticated strategy possible that involves the knight. If this is too unlikely, that atleast the knight was on the board and used to close off options for the opponent.
Thanks again to all you! You guys are great.
And here are some links with mate patterns, some of them involves knight mates or knight+ rook combo (Anastasia's, Arabian ...). Find one that you like, and we will try to help you finding the game that features it:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Checkmate_patterns
http://www.chess.com/article/view/mating-patterns-5-anastasias-mate
http://www.chess.com/forum/view/general/need-list-of-checkmate-patterns
http://www.chess.com/article/view/mating-patterns-6-anastasias-mate-part-2
http://www.chesstactics.org/index.php?Type=page&Action=none&From=6,2,9,1
how exciting!!!!!!!!! you're making this film or it hasn't been made yet?
as far as a game of chess, that would be as simple as using a queen and bishop, easy. but is the screenplay complete? I don't understand what part this is? a game of chess, a metaphor?
but I can't wait to see this, I wish you the best, and if you are still making this I'd like to help if I can :) best of luck to you and your movie, and please tell us more about it if you can.
After checking out the patterns that Dragec recommended, I think a complex version of the Anastasia or Arabian mate might be the best suited for what we are trying to do.
If you guys can come up with plausible game that two master players would play, which would result in either an Anastasia or Arabian mate, that would be awesome.
Thanks again guys.
Hi everyone,
My name is Pat Hartonian, and I'm a student filmmaker working on my thesis film, called "The Wooden Horse".
It is a period piece set in Los Angeles in 1981 and Poland in 1939, during the German invasion of Poland at the very start of WWII. The film tells the story of two Polish brothers (ages 14 and 9) who flee from the German forces.
The film ends with a very powerful scene when a big revelation, which takes place in a chess park in 1981. The important thing is that the chess game itself is a metaphor for the entire film, and the moves being used are symbolic.
That being said, if anyone help us craft a senario with the following criteria, it would be very helpful:
1) A situation when the player (our hero) sets a trap where the opponent (villian) sees an opportunity to check the player (hero) and takes it.
2) The player counters the check with a knight move, which also results in a checkmate against the opponent.
I know this would be very rare, to be able to counter a check and get a checkmate in one move -- but I know it is technically possible.
However if any chess experts amongst you think this senario is too unlikely to ever happen in real life, then please voice your opinions as well.
My goal is to be as realistic as possible in this situation (as has been our goal with every aspect of the film.)
Thank you for your help. I really appreciate it.