It is possible to counterattack a check by a checkmate but it's kinda rare to see a recorded perfect example of that game (if there's one). I never said that it's not possible it's just that I've never seen a game like that before.
COUNTERING CHECK WITH A CHECKMATE
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How about a smothered mate? Here is a nice dramatic one with a queen sacrifice, ending up with a knight giving checkmate.
I pulled this game off of Wikipedia, fromt the article about Smothered mate. It certainly is dramatic, and it lets the knight pull off a sneaky/unexpected win.
Although it's easy to arrange a game to have a check followed by a checkmate, it's extremely unlikely in master play as catastrophic mistakes will almost surely need to be made.
Sofademon's game should work very well for you. Another grandmaster game in which a Knight was used to mate is Grischuk-Ponomariov at http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1260699
SirDavid wrote:
Sofademon's game should work very well for you. Another grandmaster game in which a Knight was used to mate is Grischuk-Ponomariov at http://www.chessgames.com/perl/chessgame?gid=1260699
Yes Sofademon's game and the new one you referenced are top runs. I particularly like your because the knight is the final move.
You guys are awesome! Thank you everyone.
To all of you who helped, and would like your name to be in the credits, please message me with your names and emails.
Thanks again!
I don't think that it's an unrealistic position but as others have pointed out any respectable player would not make the move to take a piece that would result in losing the game. Then again there are times when you can be blinded by one thing or another on a chess board and you make a mistake. I designed this position with all of the elements you asked for. NB: only the white Queen, Rook, King and Knight and the black King and Queen are neccessary all other pieces are for show.
The Knight gets rid of the attacker and delivers Checkmate.
uhohspaghettio wrote:
TC, if I were you I would never use chess in a film.
Remember that what may be very appealing to you, other people mightn't "get" or like at all. This is a lot more likely to happen in something like chess, where they have little experience with the game and probably have lots of stereotypes about it.
I appreciate your point.
Chess is a small part of the film in reality, and this moves/strategy will only be noticed by people who really care about chess, however it is important to me to get the details right.
I think when you see how we are using chess in the context of the story, and how exciting the suspensful the rest of the film is, and how chess will play into the ending that you will be very pleased with what we have done.
cclynes wrote:
I don't think that it's an unrealistic position but as others have pointed out any respectable player would not make the move to take a piece that would result in losing the game. Then again there are times when you can be blinded by one thing or another on a chess board and you make a mistake. I designed this position with all of the elements you asked for. NB: only the white Queen, Rook, King and Knight and the black King and Queen are neccessary all other pieces are for show.
The Knight gets rid of the attacker and delivers Checkmate.
I have to get going to work, but I will examine this game when I get home tonight. Thanks for the input!
I decided with my position to let the Knight deliver the checkmate itself but the discovered mate and smothered mate are both good options too
good to hear the news about your film, don't keep us wondering about it long, and if there is any other help you might need for the details. I can't wait to know more.
I liked number 6 with the knight and rook, it is possible, and uses a horse.
I think the person was wrong that said to never use chess in the film. I say there isn't enough chess in films, and to keep adding more. Also movies about this period in time and people under Nazi rule, dangers of nationalism, the subject of the holocaust and genocide, such topics are imortant so that perhaps the message will reach the new generations so that history's mistakes will stop being repeated. It is scary that things happen after such a tragedy, when we should never let them repeat again and again. Kudos to you addressing such subject material.
For the OP: I think a smothered mate might also work. This would highlight the ability of the knight (the only piece that can deliver smothered mate) and show the leader surrounded by strong pieces and losing because of it. Below is a crude example, but a position could be rather easily derived where black appears strong and yet white has a forced mate.
pathart777 wrote:
Dragec,
Thank you for posting this. However as you said it was unlikely, I have sort of abandoned the idea of a one move check counter/checkmate.
If we can come put with a nice (and believable) senario for too expert chess players which results in the hero getting a checkmate using the knight piece, that would be absolutely perfect as it will be realistic and have the symbolism the film needs.
Will you be playing chess moves throughout the whole movie? I think that would be pretty cool, especially if the moves coincides with the story.
In other words, every significant part of the movie, flashback to current day and have the hero lose a piece when the villain kills someone important to him or something. And vice-versa for the villain.
Just a suggestion ;)
Anyways, I like what whkhpa21 suggested and agree you should go somewhere in that direction. ...Oh, and when the villain is forced to make those moves that lead him into checkmate, keep flashing back to every thing going wrong for the villian.
Lol, I think I'll just go make my own movie...
am I right the game is 1.check 2.checkmate
Ivan perhaps the knight can take the piece that is checking his king when mating the opponent. (#51 black doesn't check white)
right? is this what the author meant about the game.
ivandh wrote:
FlowerFlowers wrote:
am I right the game is 1.check 2.checkmate
Ivan perhaps the knight can take the piece that is checking his king when mating the opponent. (#51 black doesn't check white)
right? is this what the author meant about the game.
After a number of people mentioned that black would have to be a colossal idiot to allow this to happen, he seems to have expressed that alternatives would be acceptable.
Maybe white could get checked several times, but not right before checkmate.
The sequence I posted is merely an example of a smothered mate, a demo or prototype if you will. It isn't even forced, again black would have to be an idiot to take with his queen instead of his king. But it is something to work from.
oh! thank you Ivan, guess I didn't read close enough...
I say stick with the first idea, it is symbolism, even if the game isn't practical. Just fashion the game to fit with the story, and it isn't as big of a deal, the two players aren't going to be grandmasters are they?
Nov 24, 2010
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#37
FlowerFlowers wrote:
trysts wrote:
FlowerFlowers wrote:
some find women and politics too strong a drink trysts, not everyone can handle it. Even if it will give you grey hairs, wrinkles and a mustache, I think a woman with a mind is so sexy ;)
Too bad my mind is deteriorating, Flowers, but I dye my hair, haven't seen any wrinkles yet, and I don't have a mustache
well you know the cavemen that still stomp the land teach that when women use their minds they do it at risk of losing their beauty. best barefoot and pregnant in the kitchen. jk jk it is 2010, perhaps the ladies are better used sliding down poles in rap videos... no need to become the first female president.
Plus, if the game makes sense chess players won't be able to study the game and create controversy over saying what the moves should have been, like they do with commercials and paintings, you have to give the players the opportunity to ridicule the game you use. Really, I say when you film it use an illegal move, this is the best way to drive chess players crazy and put their rewind button to use for a good ten minutes or so.
LOL good point... bad publicity is the best kind of publicity
how exciting!!!!!!!!! you're making this film or it hasn't been made yet?
as far as a game of chess, that would be as simple as using a queen and bishop, easy. but is the screenplay complete? I don't understand what part this is? a game of chess, a metaphor?
but I can't wait to see this, I wish you the best, and if you are still making this I'd like to help if I can :) best of luck to you and your movie, and please tell us more about it if you can.
We are filming the first week of Dec. Thank you for your support...
I don't want to ruin the content of the film for any of you so I'll be a bit vauge but visually is basically about the knight piece is a reference to the "Wooden Horse" -- a toy the younger boy in the film adhores as a child -- and the title of the film.
Also in the overall theme, the symbolism of a surprise checkmate from behind is intended to show that hope is not lost unless you give up. The theme of the film itself is about keeping the truth alive, and making those responsible face up to it.
Hope this helps without being too mysterious. I plan on thanking many of you in the credits for your help on this, and will be sure to post links to the trailer and website which should go up in mid to late January.