designated symbol for stalemate?

There are designated symbols for check (+) and checkmate (#). I think it would be useful to add a designated symbol for stalemate.

One should choose a symbol which is not a letter, not a number and not any of the other characters (like +, #, =, %, $, ", *) used for special purposes in pgn files.

I suggest §. It looks like a double S (S for stalemate) and it should be easily distinguishable from the other symbols.

I could see where this could be useful when searching games in a database; it we had a specific symbol, we could find and view/analyse just the stalemate games instead of including the agreed draw games. Perhaps an @ symbol for 'agreed' draw games, or FF for games ending in draw when a flash flood wipes out the tournament hall.

% is used for e.g. clocks (1. d4 {[%clk 00:14:59]} e6 {[%clk 00:14:54]}) http://www.enpassant.dk/chess/palview/enhancedpgn.htm

$ is used for Numeric Annotation Glyphs http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Numeric_Annotation_Glyphs

" is used in the tags: [White "goodSirN"]

* is used as the result of the game while the game is still not finished. http://www6.chessclub.com/help/PGN-spec

The symbol for stalemate should be something like this:   :(   )  representing the shocked state of mind of the stalemated player.

The fact that "$" is already used in NAG isn't very important because of context: a parser can easily determine whether the "$" symbol comes after a move with nothing after that symbol, versus that symbol being followed by digits...

A Numeric Annotation Glyph ("NAG", see below) is a token; it is composed of a dollar sign character ("$") immediately followed by one or more digit characters. It is terminated just prior to the first non-digit character following the digit sequence.

http://www.saremba.de/chessgml/standards/pgn/pgn-complete.htm

@goodSirN:

Sorry, but the "§" symbol is not on my keyboard. If the average person writing PGN files is going to be able to use a symbol, it has to be on the average QUERTY keyboard without hassles of Unicode or Microsoft Word special characters.

@Sqod: The § is usually available on a Norwegian qwerty keyboard. I didn't realize that its not on the average English keyboard. That is, of course, a good argument against §.

So maybe $ can be used, or perhaps &.

Talking about missing symbols in pgn, I miss a tag that would tell me how a game ended. According to the rules there are three ways to win (checkmate, resignation or on time) and five ways to draw (stalemate, insufficient material, agreement between the players, three fold repetition of a position or fifty non-reversible moves). It should be possible to add a tag to this effect.

That's not on my American keyboard, either.

@goodSirN:

A major problem with symbols is that there are a limited number of them on a standard QWERTY keyboard, so either a symbol-based PGN system will quickly run out of symbols, or symbols must be used that are not on a standard keyboard. If the latter option is used then one can use Unicode or existing (but insufficient) Informant symbols, but a major problem with that option is what I call "icon hell": pretty soon the symbols/icons become so numerous and intricate, like Japanese characters, that the average person cannot remember them all or even figure them out.

The best solution is to use letter combinations with letters on standard keyboards. This is what nature essentially did when it decided to code genes with only 4 "letters" (A, C, G, T) to represent almost any conceivable body structure, or what chemists did by using 2- or 3-letter element names instead of single exotic symbols, or what Western countries did by using combinations of letters in strings instead of ever-more-intrictate symbols. I'm pushing ahead on my own system that uses 2- or 3-letter combinations in my personal annotations. So far I have only "wio" to mean "with idea of" and "sm" for "stalemate" but I'll be adding many more soon as the need arises. I need a workable system now and I can't wait around for the rest of the world to catch up or to standardize.

@Sqod: My point is not to have a symbol for all annotation purposes. This would indeed lead to "icon hell". Stalemate is equivalent to checkmate in that it immediately ends the game. Also, it is not an annotation because it conveys only objective, not subjective, information. (See your own link, section 8.2.3.5)

"With the idea" has the NAG $140, albeit this is non-standard.

I agree. I need to practice my JavaScript so I'm tentatively planning to start writing a PGN player in JavaScript to incorporate "@" and anything else I want (I'll be open to suggestions if I can ever get started), but I first need to look up which languages are typically used for PGN players.

There is  a rally good library called chess.js (the link is below). It might be worth looking at as something youc an modify instead of building it from scratch.

https://github.com/jhlywa/chess.js

Yes, that's a nice library. It looks like the API program called "Constructor" shown there will do everything a PGN player will do except handling icons for the piece representation, and allowing played moves to be controlled by a screen button, but those features would be fairly easy to add. I still need to decide on JavaScript, though, and keep in mind that it would be better practice if I did write such a program from scratch, although there's a big risk I'd never finish, given my busy schedule, if I did that.

On my personal wish list for a PGN player are these options:

1. "@" for "stalemate"

2. less sensitivity to comments and their locations

3. less sensitivity to blank lines and other formatting anomalies

4. handle long form algebraic notation as well as the usual short form

5. handle descriptive notation

6. much better error correction on illegal moves, such as using "Qa4" instead of the erroneously notated "Qh4" if the next few moves indicate that only the file representation was in error

7. (possible new option) mode that shows objective characteristics like hanging pieces, overworked units, or potential discovered attacks

Well, @ is already used in bug house chess to indicate a drop (14.N@f3 means white dropped a knight at f3).

I still would like basic pgn to note a stalemate. One reason I "need" this is the convenience of having the stalemate announced while analyzing a game using an engine. Sometimes I fail to notice that there is a stalemate. Sometimes that is a blunder. I.e. 52...c1=Q&??

It seems that the only readily available character which is not used is ^ or &. I would prefer &.

That would be great, but we don't have that symbol on American keyboards.  How about >< indicating or some two-letter symbol like sm.

Well, = is already used to annotate an equal position. And I would far prefer a single-letter symbol over a two-letter symbol. Again, ^ and & are on the keyboard and still not used in pgn files.

Stalemate is a way to draw, like repetition of position or the 50-move rule or agreement. '=' is sufficient. If not, should we not add symbols to distinguish check/mate by Queen, Rook, Bishop, etc? What happened to 'On guard' to announce attack on the Queen? Why not include an evaluation with every move? Sufficient information is enough for a game score; those who want more are permitted to write books, encyclopedias, even libraries. But please, just let the rest of us play.

The double equal (==) and double mate (##) signs have been used by various annotators. You'd think Informant would have a special code, but they don't seem to. Even in the Encyclopedia of Chess Endings, they just use "=" at the end of stalemate lines, indicating draw.

I think that a stalemate symbol should exist. Even if it's a way to draw, it differs from others. And = symbol isn't sufficient, as it's mainly used like evaluation symbols +,-. Stalemate ends the game like mate. We could use even a combined symbol like ==, ## or even #=, but it should be commonly accepted and entered in the pgn viewers-editors.

In checkmate or stalemate chess problem = symbol can be enough as in this context we don't care about qualifying a position as equal, but for a study, a chess game or something else where we want to explicitly note the stalemate that's insufficient.

So % symbol could be a good choice as out of %clk context, i also agree with @ or & or ~ or § or unicodes like ½ or ÷ or even ¤ symbol (ctrl+alt+$ on my keyboard).

Finally == is also OK even if i prefer an easy accessible single symbol, anyway a common standard symbol for stalemate is required.

why did i read through this

Good point for using "=" symbol, here are my ideas:

=Ag for agreement;
=Sm for stalemate;

=Im for insufficient material;

=vs for timeout vs insufficient material.