I usually expect to win against people up to 1900-2000, I'm rated 1700-1800 here.
From my experience above 2000 the engines start to appear and that is why I don't expect to win.
Do you expect to win?
Sort:
Well yeah, CC changes things big time, I expect to win as well there, live is really what I'm referring to, or OTB(But I haven't played any OTB yet) Sorry, should have clarified.
I was talking about live.
Obviously. I glossed over your name in passing and it said your correspondence rating, I just immediately tied that to your post my mistake.
The higher the opponent's rating, the higher my expectation to win, so the more seriously I will play. But whether I will play for a win or for a draw, it depends on the position. If I play White against a GM, I will play for a win. If I play Black I will play for a draw. But of course there is a possibility I have to change my "expectation", when original plans do not work.
But honestly, if your rating is "really" 1500, I doubt you have a clear idea on how to really properly play for a draw. Drawing is never that simple in lower level, especially because the endgame skill is far from perfect. Playing DEFENSIVE or safely (or being patient) doesn't mean playing for a draw. Sometimes that is what you have to do (a strategic way) if you want to win.
If you want to secure a draw, you may want to choose a suitable opening and variations (such as an early queen exchange), and tactically play for a draw (such as forcing an opposite-color bishops on the board).
yusuf_prasojo wrote:
The higher the opponent's rating, the higher...
What? You're rating is lower even than mine. And when you say "really" are you implying that the numbers on the screen aren't actually there? I hate to get defensive when someone responds to my post I really do, but your failed attempt to imply that I might be cheating is insulting and one of ignorance.
I do want to respond however to your first paragraph. If I were to play a GM I would want to win, I would jump at the chance to win certainly, but I wouldn't expect to win... He's a GM... rated nearly a thousand points higher than me...
EDIT: I should make it clear that you may very well be better than me, that isn't the point of my post.
Puroi wrote:
From my experience above 2000 the engines start to appear and that is why I don't expect to win.
That's why I don't want to play turn-based chess. Strategic playing style against a human is different than playing style against a computer. Against human we can offer a complicated theoretically weak positions, against computer we cannot. And what do you think if your opponent play like a human, then you can "predict" your opponent strength and start to "play the man" but then in a critical position he feed the position to an engine??
WellRounded wrote:
What? You're rating is lower even than mine. And when you say "really" are you implying that the numbers on the screen aren't actually there? I hate to get defensive when someone responds to my post I really do, but your failed attempt to imply that I might be cheating is insulting and one of ignorance.
Your (live standard) rating is said 1450-1500 while actually you MAY be stronger than that. May be because of insufficient games, or many other reasons. And my response is not addressed to person by to players in general.
If my rating is only 1450, how can I know about what I have said? You may ask such question. Well, of course I have my answer if I have to answer.
I still appreciate your response, and I have not and will not refute the advice you gave unless I learn otherwise. Your advice was seemingly sound but I disagree on the subjective aspects of what you said. Perhaps you are better than your rating, but have no way of knowing this. I do still hope though that this topic will receive more responses.
yusuf_prasojo wrote:
The higher the opponent's rating, the higher my expectation to win, so the more seriously I will play.
...a very healthy attitude. Expectations definitely influence performance.
WellRounded wrote: I do want to respond however to your first paragraph. If I were to play a GM I would want to win, I would jump at the chance to win certainly, but I wouldn't expect to win... He's a GM... rated nearly a thousand points higher than me...
So you wouldn't expect to win because your rating is nearly a thousand points lower than a GM. In such circumstances I will try to take as many lessons from the game with him, or simply not play him. For example, I don't want to join a blitz tournaments because I know I will lose anyway and I don't think I will learn many things from it.
Now what if I have to play an opponent that I know I will beat him in a long game but he is stronger in faster game (e.g. playing against the top players)? Will I have no expectation to win? The answer is I still expect to win. I will try to find a way how I can utilize my strength and hide my weaknesses. I have no idea how but I will try. For example, I will play defensively but solidly, avoid tactical positions and find a chance to transform into favourable endgame. From my experience, I blunder in the middlegame but when I can reach the endgame I can beat many "strong" opponents.
WellRounded wrote: EDIT: I should make it clear that you may very well be better than me, that isn't the point of my post.
Okay, I'm not a sensible person. That's why I tend to underestimate people's sensitivity. I'm sorry for that.
WellRounded wrote:I still appreciate your response, and I have not and will not refute the advice you gave unless I learn otherwise. Your advice was seemingly sound but I disagree on the subjective aspects of what you said. Perhaps you are better than your rating, but have no way of knowing this. I do still hope though that this topic will receive more responses.
Oh, this is a good thread (the topic) and this kind of debate invites many responses sometimes. And other players' responses will eventually make you more disagree or even the other way around. For example, what if a 2700-rated player jumps in and agree with me? That's why it is not important what my opinion is, because the important thing is you can compare it with those from higher rated players.
I do expect to win and I think its a good thing. This is the only site I play on that uses ratings so I try not to pay any attention to them, no sense having a number after a guys name introducing doubts to my frame of mind.
It's no big deal if I lose or draw, as long as I know I played a good game.
DMX21x1 wrote: This is the only site I play on that uses ratings so I try not to pay any attention to them, no sense having a number after a guys name introducing doubts to my frame of mind.
Your post triggers an idea in my head. Yes, it will be so nice if we can always play the board and not play the man (tho to ceratin level even GM has to play the man). So, I'm thinking of having an (optional) playing mode where we don't know who we are playing with, but we will get the result as a change in our rating.
rubygabbi wrote:
yusuf_prasojo wrote:
The higher the opponent's rating, the higher my expectation to win, so the more seriously I will play.
...a very healthy attitude. Expectations definitely influence performance.
I just want to make sure that we're all using the accepted definition of expectation.
to look forward to; regard as likely to happen; anticipate the occurrence or the coming of: I expect to read it. I expect him later. She expects that they will come.
I don't regard the likelihood of winning higher when playing a tougher opponent. It would simply be illogical. Expectation can influence performance undoubtedly, but it doesn't have to. I'm not trying to argue, but rather make clear what I'm trying to ask.
Why not expect to win? A positive mental state is important. :)
I played two fast games against a Russian IM yesterday, and I got absolutely slaughtered. I know I'm not strong enough to beat an IM, but it surprised me just how badly I was beaten.
But, really, I know why. I knew why during the game, and I knew why after the game. In fact, I even knew why before the game!
It was because I played defensively the whole time, terrified of my high-rated opponent. My mindset was negative and I crumbled.
an_arbitrary_name wrote:
Why not expect to ...
Yes, but nothing you said suggests that you ever should have expected to win. If a person chooses to deceive themselves into expecting to win that's fine, it should be recognized however as just that. Your playing terrified had nothing to do with your expectation not to win. If I go into a game expecting not to win, that doesn't make me play defensively or terrified. I would play the game the same way, with complete understanding that it was possible for me to win. Still that doesn't mean I expect to win.
"The higher the opponent's rating, the higher my expectation to win, so the more seriously I will play. But whether ...."
This does not make sense...by this logic, if you sit down to play Kasparov,Karpov, or Fischer...you have a higher expectation to win...as opposed to playing players at 500, 600 and 700???
I think we are mixing up "expect"- regard as likely to happen, with maybe "desire"- want.
Hell, If I sit down to play Kasparov...I will expect to loose...but that does not mean I will have a strong desire to beat the heck out of him, or negatively affect my performance...
Whenever I play chess, I expect to blunder and lose, regardless of who the opponent is. Thus, I make a point of being extra careful, to try and prevent that from happening. That doesn't mean I won't play aggressive lines. I just play them very carefully, and make sure I know what I'm doing before going into them, especially if there's a material sacrifice involved.
I've found that since adopting this careful attitude, I've been very disappointed with myself, because I don't meet my expectations as much as I used to...
--Fromper
When I play live, I pretty much expect to win when I play someone about 100 points lower than me, not to say that I do, but I expect that of myself. But when someone rating 100 points higher than me sits down I can't help but sit back try to be patient and be on the guard to protect a draw and jump at the occasional blunder. (Keep in mind my rating at at live standard: 1450-1500) My question mainly applies to standard since that's what I play:
When you sit down with someone rated X amount higher than you do you expect to win or look for a chance to draw?
I realize many people will be inclined to say "Anyone can be anyone I've seen this guy beat this other guy rated 400 points higher etc etc..." I know. It's not a question of possibility, rather of expectation.