Do you use Analyze/Explore during a running online game?

Hi there,

As far as I now, it's deemed as acceptable for online games to make use of the analyse and explore function while playing a match. Sure, probably those functions weren't there otherwise. What's your opinion of it?

Speaking for myself I don't use those those functions in a running game. On the one hand, it feels like cheating to me. I treat an online game kind of an OTB in so far as I force me to work the possible combinations out before I chose my move. As I think it's important for your improvement in chess to train your abality to visualise the oncoming positions in your mind without moving the pieces I stick to this principle in online games as well. 

In spite of this I slighly bent this rule using conditional moves, which is a great feature I regard to be polite to use so your oponent doesn't have to wait for your next move. Especially in an obvious situation, say a trade of pieces or natural moves of a opening it's not necasary to keep your oponent waitng when he's online again. Using this function I sometimes discover a flaw in my original planned combination and delete the variation which is not working. I such cases I go back to the original position and review the planned moves again in my mind. That is okay for me because I already submitted my move and I can't change that decision.

I know that not everyone here has the same mindset, so I want to ask around what other people think about this and how they see the usage of those functions. In one thread in which a beginner asked for help in how to train his openings someone even recommended the use of the explore function to avoid blunders. That's a totally wrong approach in my opinion because it only leads to copying moves from master games without developing your own judgement and plan for an opening. I don't even think avoiding blunders by this way is a good think. On the contrary, if you play a painful blunder in one of your games in the opening you'll probably memorize this experience and are able to avoid it in the future because you know why that special move fails. Plus you can exploit it if your oponent makes the same move in another game with reversed colours.

So, apparantly it became a longer text than I expected, sorry for that. What do you think bout those matters?

Cheers,

Spielkalb 

I think explore function use is okay, but never for ethical reasons the analyze function.  Who the heck would use a computer to try and find a better move???  I am usually working toward--and having joined the site in August--doing the explore in my head, like at tournaments, which is something that takes a lot of training and memory that the average beginner or intermediate player do not have yet quickly.  The Chess Mentor and Virtual Coach have helped me, but my method in that department is to memorize the proper moves, and then recalculate so I can absorb the principles as much as possible. Some exercises, I will repeat, which the button says "Review this Lesson Again" 8 or 10 times, getting 100% so that I can see all the variance in application of principles to make a winning combin.  This is very hard to do, find the guiding principles, but making a photographic memory is one I think shore step to starting this kind of level in training.  I am only about 1102 rate now, but I would think I can get to 13 or 1400 in a half year if I study enough, and this is worth it to me..

I think Spielkalb meant the analysis board, not the "analyze game" feature, which indeed would be cheating. 

oh..

Exactly. Just the function to open a pop-up showing a board of your current position where you can move the pieces to test combination in advance before submitting your move.

Isn't it the same with the explore function? You use the data base to show you which moves have been played in master games.

Using the analysis board durring an online chess.com game is not cheating.  You are not allowed to use an analysis board durring a live chess.com game.

Sure, but my question was not if it's allowed or not but if you use it or think the usage of those function is helpful in the long run.

IMO, online chess (turn-based chess) is the computer version of correspondence  chess. Referencing master games and/or analyzing the position on your own (no computer assistance) is perfectly legitimate and adds to the quality of the game. If one chooses to not use these aids in order to train one's OTB skills, turn-based chess is an excellent tool. Seems to me simply a matter of choice.

I used to but here is what I found.  Those are Master level games and much of the higher percentage moves are for a deeper level of understanding.  For those of us not master candidates we don't know what they are thinking or developing.  Following those moves out will leave you in a position you do not understand fully and I think hinders personal growth.  Often times doing what is recomended on explore suddenly changes to less favorable position ironically.  I did learn alot about fundamentals pertaining to certian openings this way by fully comprehending the moves.  I play live and need to keep my tactics sharp so using the explore for online chess will dull your resources in live chess.

I did get a kick out of it on rare occasions when 15 to 20 moves in find that my game was actually an occurance of master play.  that only happened a hand full of times but was a novalty.  

In those days I would intentionaly make moves off book as I did not want the feature used against me.  it goes both ways.   Play by instincts and personally developed fundamentals.  Making a move because others have that u don't understand is not going to help you learn a heck of alot. 

Now when someone comes out with a rare open I am unfamiliar with I do admit i will check it out.  Helps to see if my planned response is completely off base.  Im ranting but thats my take. 

I think and O I would sweae up and down that using a Masters games database while playing correspondence chess is a horrible lack of ethics, and is cheating.  That's like, asking an engine to help you choose the best way, clearly wrong, in fundamental professional ethics.  You can't team up with a database to decide which counter move is the most probable win, and expect to not be overtly guilty of cheating. 

I dont use a database of mastergames I meant the "explore" button next to the moves in online chess and all that shows is what moves have been used in games and the percentage of wins/draws/losses in master play.  Actually IM, and NM's on this site have recommended to me and have seen it recommended to others to use this feature the help learn and improve your game.  Correspondance chess is quite different from OTB and Live.  Like I said for the most part dont use for the reasons I stated above. 

Incidentally today after reading a thread that seems just wont die, the Queens Gambit Accepted I memorized a several lines about 7 moves in.  Played them out exactly as the main line goes, from memory.  Wound up getting destroyed in the mid game.  Memorizing lines does nothing if you don't know the theory behind them and is the same as simply blinding following lines because others have.  I don't cheat but I have read that alot do on this site.  Well not alot but Im sure some.  My game wont improve unless  I study the lines and meanings behind the moves.  Chess is fun for me and if I ever felt the need to cheat well that just wouldnt be fun.  Actually having to study at all kinda takes the fun out of it for me.  Im long past hanging pieces and know quite a bit about tactics and theory so for me, its hit the books or stagnate.  I do wanna learn a few more openings well but other then that Im pretty happy with my chess abilities, especially OTB.  Now go have fun with yourself

@elig5428: The use of books was always allowed in the old "postal" correspondence games.  A database is simply the digital equivalent of a chess book library.  You may consider it cheating if you wish to do so, but the history of correspondence chess suggests that your viewpoint is simply wrong.

I'm glad it's not cheating because I do it all the time! I also consult a small but growing library of openings books. I used to play snail mail chess and play online the same way, I have a board set up in my office and one in my kitchen at home and like to "sink" deep into a position

Note; one feature I find perhaps even more useful when using the explore feature is getting it to look at your own games rather than rarified master efforts. Very useful for improving your game, the fact that chess.com saves and manages a database of my own games like this is one of my favourite features of the site.

Hey Seraphimity, the only answer I can say is IDK.  feel free to chall me any time, plea?  I think you have made a point with conclucivity.

Thank you all for your contributions to my thoughts! After reading your comments, it seems to be clear to me that it's all about utilising those tools actively for your own improvement. Obviously, only using the explore function passively and taking the move with the most wins out of it wouldn't be very helpful for your own development without understanding why those moves have been made and what are they aiming for. 

That's a really great note, thanks for this! To use the explore function to browse through your own previous answers in a current opening seems to be really useful for learning tool. Didn't think about that before. Special cookie for you!

Exactly Spielkalb. During the opening, I do like to use the Opening Explorer to help me avoid lines that are considered bad. However, simply choosing an opening line because it has a great win percentage for whatever side you are playing is not wise. In one of my early games I did this, and I ended up with a position that was very uncomfortable to me. At that point the game was out of book and those winning percentages were useless to me. Now I like to try to play lines that lead to solid positions that I am comfortable with, and suit my style of play.

BTW, the Analysis Board and the Opening Explorer are helpful in the long run. It may not seem that way when using them in Online Chess because in a live game you can't use them ... but you will find that they help you with an overall deeper understanding of the game.

PsYcHo_ChEsS wrote "BTW, the Analysis Board and the Opening Explorer are helpful in the long run. It may not seem that way when using them in Online Chess because in a live game you can't use them ... but you will find that they help you with an overall deeper understanding of the game."

These functions have been crucial in my developing particular defences and opening long term.  so much easier then actually getting out the practice board with book in hand.  

I can now use the Pirc rather succesfully in live play as a result of the explore function.  and I do play alot of live chess.  funnything about the explore function; try it pick the highest win % percent option and then see often it does a complete reversal.  Moving without understand is simply "pushing wood"

I try not to use either because I would like my online rating to be true to my actual strength.