flagging : Is it unethical or part of the game

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Khnemu_Nehep

Not at all. He took more time to find better moves so that means you're better.
Even if he had a better position, he took more time to get that so...he gambled his time vs a better position and lost.
There's no disrespect about it. He knew the rules and he lost.

Bruse84
nklristic ha scritto:
Bruse84 wrote:
nklristic ha scritto:
Bruse84 wrote:
nklristic ha scritto:
Speed is part of the game (expecially in bullet and blitz), flagging is different: flagging is widthdawn from playing just to win on clock, which is different. If someone can't find the difference, there's nothing else to add, he/she's hopeless (and probably a 700/800 rate player)

The chess game is always some sort of a compromise between a pure chess skill and time you have on your hand (unless it is some sort of a correspondence game). For games you play, time is a bigger factor than in longer games.

If I have a completely winning position and lose on time, it means my opponent had a better balance between chess skill and time usage and deserved to win. If that is not the case, why are we having different time controls at all.

We will not agree on this, so I will stop here.

Agree that we can't agree...

How can you put at the same level a chess player and someone who think only to win despite any moral obligation?

BTW, I've just lost for 0.03s, from a position of 6.5 of advantage... are we sure it's a matter of beeing better? really really? is in the balance considerd also the connection lag (just an example of how much your way of thinking is fragile...)

You mean... a game such as this one:

I am sure you've lost sleep over that one. After all, it is so morally wrong to win these type of games.

To quote you:
--------------------------------
(just an example of how much your way of thinking is fragile...)

-------------------------------

What you are doing is accepting the rules of the game, and then are dissatisfied when they don't go your way.

When you are so insistent, if you are so against flagging, why didn't you resign games such as these as well:

Completely lost for you, so it is really not nice of you to win this game.

Or how about this win of yours:

I guess when you win such games, it is morally correct to do so.

happy you have a long time to spend to look on all my matches...

Not really. All it takes is just clicking on let's say your bullet rating, or blitz or rapid, doesn't matter which (then full stats, then completed games). Then you look at the right and list wins by timeout (you can list games by various other things as well). It is enough to hover over a few such games (and see the end position) to find such examples quickly.

All these are from the page 1 of bullet or blitz, and I didn't even went through the whole page, far from it.

No need to look how many you've lost, surely you've lost a fair share of such games, as you are playing speed chess, it would be illogical if you didn't. Safe to say, there are plenty of both. In any case, you are complaining about something you've been doing regularly yourself, which is diminishing the strength of your case.

sometimes happens, of course... nobody is a saint.

If you say "on regular basis" I should feel really defame... Lucky, I don't really care about a flagger opinion wink.png

nklristic
Bruse84 wrote:
nklristic ha scritto:
Bruse84 wrote:
nklristic ha scritto:
Bruse84 wrote:
nklristic ha scritto:
Speed is part of the game (expecially in bullet and blitz), flagging is different: flagging is widthdawn from playing just to win on clock, which is different. If someone can't find the difference, there's nothing else to add, he/she's hopeless (and probably a 700/800 rate player)

The chess game is always some sort of a compromise between a pure chess skill and time you have on your hand (unless it is some sort of a correspondence game). For games you play, time is a bigger factor than in longer games.

If I have a completely winning position and lose on time, it means my opponent had a better balance between chess skill and time usage and deserved to win. If that is not the case, why are we having different time controls at all.

We will not agree on this, so I will stop here.

Agree that we can't agree...

How can you put at the same level a chess player and someone who think only to win despite any moral obligation?

BTW, I've just lost for 0.03s, from a position of 6.5 of advantage... are we sure it's a matter of beeing better? really really? is in the balance considerd also the connection lag (just an example of how much your way of thinking is fragile...)

You mean... a game such as this one:

I am sure you've lost sleep over that one. After all, it is so morally wrong to win these type of games.

To quote you:
--------------------------------
(just an example of how much your way of thinking is fragile...)

-------------------------------

What you are doing is accepting the rules of the game, and then are dissatisfied when they don't go your way.

When you are so insistent, if you are so against flagging, why didn't you resign games such as these as well:

Completely lost for you, so it is really not nice of you to win this game.

Or how about this win of yours:

I guess when you win such games, it is morally correct to do so.

happy you have a long time to spend to look on all my matches...

Not really. All it takes is just clicking on let's say your bullet rating, or blitz or rapid, doesn't matter which (then full stats, then completed games). Then you look at the right and list wins by timeout (you can list games by various other things as well). It is enough to hover over a few such games (and see the end position) to find such examples quickly.

All these are from the page 1 of bullet or blitz, and I didn't even went through the whole page, far from it.

No need to look how many you've lost, surely you've lost a fair share of such games, as you are playing speed chess, it would be illogical if you didn't. Safe to say, there are plenty of both. In any case, you are complaining about something you've been doing regularly yourself, which is diminishing the strength of your case.

sometimes happens, of course... nobody is a saint.

If you say "on regular basis" I should feel really defame... Lucky, I don't really care about a flagger opinion

Funny that someone playing bullet and 5|0 blitz accuse me of flagging people. Certainly a new one. Such a good flagger I am, I would time out on move 5 in bullet. happy.png

I play 60|0 rated games almost exclusively just to diminish the impact of time, so my games can be decided because of chess skill alone. Sure, timing out will still happen, every now and then, but if I lose on time, it is my fault, that is all there is to it.

I was unhappy when they removed 45|45 from being a default time control, because that time control is even better for having a more quality game.

uri65
Bruse84 wrote:

not cheating is the basic attitude for fair play, but fair play is not only following the rules, but also some moral obligation between players.

I think that "flaggers" have simply a low standard about "moral obligation", which is fine (I mean, we are talking of online chess, not of life/death of peace/war), but at least they should be consciuous of what they are doing.

We all should aim to the highest standard I think, not asking the others to reach the bog of mediocrity because we can't do better.

The idea that flagging has something to do with morals is just your invention.

Before you accuse others and show your ignorance try to learn about how flagging is seen by the vast majority of the chess world.

https://www.chess.com/terms/flagging-chess

https://www.chess.com/fair-play (surprise, surprise, flagging is not mentioned in the chess.com guide on fair play)

Magnus Casually flagging TOP GMs https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pKQcKyP7oPE

How To Be Lucky In Chess : Flagging Basics By GM Daniel Naroditsky https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1DqL8rUDUtg

Magnus Showing his flagging skill https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=eGED2EBE9LY

Get Better At Bullet Chess: Flagging https://www.chess.com/video/player/get-better-at-bullet-chess-flagging