So I let Fritz 16 play a couple of games against Komodo 11. The results were in favor of Komodo. I don't know that I had it set up correctly. To me the real reason I wanted Fritz 16 was for the interface and all the extras that come with it. Here is the game.
Hi RM, I'm thinking of buying Fritz 16 (have never owned any previous version). What extras have you found most useful? And what do you like about the interface?
Fritz chess engines have never been the strongest, however, they are plenty strong for tactical analysis. Don't worry about that... You can always discover what the strongest engine is from this website: http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/
Of course you can test the engines if you like, but why? Someone is already doing it, see weblink above.
Nice thing about Chessbase products, like Fritz 16, is you can install other UCI chess engines, like Stockfish, Houdini, Komodo, etc... and you can always purchase the chess engines separately from the GUI (just google them).
As mentioned above, if the price of Fritz 16 is a little too much, you may be able to find discounted older versions of Fritz still available. I suggest not waiting too long for that, previous versions, like Fritz 15, will get more difficult to find as time passes.
A chess GUI, will run ANY UCI engine when the OS is 64-bit, and only the 32-bit ones when the OS is 32-bit.
This has nothing to do with the actual GUI being 32 or 64 bit.
Not so... Both 32 and 64 GUI will run on a 64 bit OS.
IF (notice the IF) you install the 64-bit GUI, true that some 32-bit engines will run, NOT all. It is safe to say ALL 64-bit engines will run.
GUI install has nothing to do with it? Sorry, Chessbase support would disagree.
I wonder if we're speaking past each other here. What IM phren said is true so I'm a little lost.
If you install a 64 bit version of Fritz, all 64 bit and 32 bit UCI engines will work. However, older Fritz native engines (those with the .eng file extension) will not be recognized by the interface. To use such engines you need a 32 bit version of Fritz installed. A 32 bit installation of Fritz can use 64 or 32 bit UCI engines (provided you're running 64 bit Windows) but it will not recognize newer Fritz native engines (those with the .engine file extension). This state of affairs began with Fritz 14, when Chessbase first offered a 64 bit version and changed the format of Fritz native engines.
It's possible I misunderstand the discussion and, if so, my apologies.
@JaseE22 Long gone are the days when Fritz was bought for its engine's playing strength. These days it's the GUI and other features that people tend to buy it for with which you can integrate other UCI engines, such as Stockfish and its derivatives.
It has some decent auto-analysis features, but see my earlier posts in this thread, especially #68 and #74. It also has some interesting options to help training in tactics and openings etc. For playability (i.e. when you want to play against Fritz 16 as an opponent), it's not as configurable as Fritz 13 was, although you can adjust its strength and it will adjust its strength to yours and give you chances to beat it with various graphical hints.
You can annotate games scores with the software and it has a database with various search functions for positions and games. It comes with just over a million games, some of which are annotated with commentary, although the quality of these varies greatly.
It acts as an interface with the PlayChess server, making it easier to record and analyse games played there, and gives you the ability to 'watch' live games around the world while letting an engine of your choice kibbitz them.
Finally, a nice feature of the whole package is the 6 months free Premium membership of Chessbase, giving you unfettered access to all the training videos, online database, as well as the PlayChess server.As to its interface, I've found it fairly straightforward and clean. I've been using Fritz since about 2000, so I know my way around it pretty well by now, but there will be a learning curve for new users. Some people prefer Arena, which is free, but it won't have the same amount of functionality or features.
If you're not sure you want to pay out £50-£60 for Fritz 16, you might find slightly earlier versions around that are much cheaper with a very similar feature set.
Thanks for the detailed response m-p-b. Is it possible to do tactics training and puzzles using just the standalone Fritz 16 programme, or do you also need to subscribe to another Chessbase programme like Playchess? (Would you recommend getting Playchess as well?). Apologies if this is a silly question but what exactly do you mean by "kibbitz"?
As mentioned above, if the price of Fritz 16 is a little too much, you may be able to find discounted older versions of Fritz still available. I suggest not waiting too long for that, previous versions, like Fritz 15, will get more difficult to find as time passes.
And if you are happy to use the Steam platform, Fritz 14 and 15 are a great price just now in the Steam winter sale (as are two versions of Chessbase 13)
A chess GUI, will run ANY UCI engine when the OS is 64-bit, and only the 32-bit ones when the OS is 32-bit.
This has nothing to do with the actual GUI being 32 or 64 bit.
Not so... Both 32 and 64 GUI will run on a 64 bit OS.
IF (notice the IF) you install the 64-bit GUI, true that some 32-bit engines will run, NOT all. It is safe to say ALL 64-bit engines will run.
GUI install has nothing to do with it? Sorry, Chessbase support would disagree.
I wonder if we're speaking past each other here. What IM phren said is true so I'm a little lost.
If you install a 64 bit version of Fritz, all 64 bit and 32 bit UCI engines will work. However, older Fritz native engines (those with the .eng file extension) will not be recognized by the interface. To use such engines you need a 32 bit version of Fritz installed. A 32 bit installation of Fritz can use 64 or 32 bit UCI engines (provided you're running 64 bit Windows) but it will not recognize newer Fritz native engines (those with the .engine file extension). This state of affairs began with Fritz 14, when Chessbase first offered a 64 bit version and changed the format of Fritz native engines.
It's possible I misunderstand the discussion and, if so, my apologies.
correct and I think more confusing. most engines provide both a 32 and 64 bit version.
The older (.eng) engines are all 32 bit the new are all 64 bit (.engine).
It only makes sense and is so much easier to communicate to others, if you have a 64 bit OS, you will typically and should installed 64 bit version of software. Having done this it is safe to say all 64 bit engines will work with your 64 bit installation.
If you have a 32-bit executable (.exe) file it will run on a 64 bit OS, a 64-bit executable (.exe) shouldn't run on a 32-bit OS.
The (.exe) executable engines run independent from the GUI, where as the (.eng/.engines) engines do not, so the (.exe) are dependent on the OS not the GUI, again, more confusion.
If you have installed Chessbase as 32-bit and have a 64-bit operating system most 64-bit (.exe) engines should run as they are running independent from the GUI.
There are some chess engines compiled for specific CPU designs as well, obviously they will not run on all CPU's because of this, that will have nothing to do with the OS or GUI, even more confusion.
Most of this really isn't an issue at all until you start trying to run older engines on new Chessbase software.
I'm sure the authors of the .eng/.engine files could fix this by providing versions compiled to use libraries from both 32-bit and 64-bit GUI installations... although I'm not 100% sure a fix is that simple.
UPDATED: okay, I adjusted the wording on this a few times, hopefully it is clear. Sometimes I have to read what I said again and change. I understand what I'm saying, the words that exit my mouth and fingers not always so clear, I know this... often why I try to keep things simple :-)
As mentioned above, if the price of Fritz 16 is a little too much, you may be able to find discounted older versions of Fritz still available. I suggest not waiting too long for that, previous versions, like Fritz 15, will get more difficult to find as time passes.
And if you are happy to use the Steam platform, Fritz 14 and 15 are a great price just now in the Steam winter sale (as are two versions of Chessbase 13)
I would personally try to avoid Steam for all software products if you can.
You can find copies of the Fritz products on Amazon and Chess stores online.
As mentioned above, if the price of Fritz 16 is a little too much, you may be able to find discounted older versions of Fritz still available. I suggest not waiting too long for that, previous versions, like Fritz 15, will get more difficult to find as time passes.
And if you are happy to use the Steam platform, Fritz 14 and 15 are a great price just now in the Steam winter sale (as are two versions of Chessbase 13)
I would personally try to avoid Steam for all software products if you can.
You can find copies of the Fritz products on Amazon and Chess stores online.
I agree. I have the Steam Version and I hate it. It is very buggy.
@JaseE22
Yes, the tactics and some training features are all integral to the stand-alone Fritz 16 version, as well as earlier versions - it's been a staple feature for a while. The onilne tactics and training options are very similar to what's on Fritz 16, but via a dated-looking web interface (when compared to something like lichess).
The thing with Fritz 16 is that you can generate tactics training (puzzles) via the database and through the auto-analysis feature. It's possible to build up 1000s of tactic puzzles very quickly. There used to be an old Chessbase file that had 1000s of tactics. I'm sure that will be knocking around the internet somewhere to download for free.
Playchess.com is the online chess playing arm of Chessbase - much like Chess.com's Play features. However, it is much older-looking than modern web-based interfaces and for many, the features and ease of access of sites like Chess.com and lichess, are better and richer. But it does slot nicely into the GUI, making your games there easily analysable by an engine for as long and as deep as you want.
Kibbitzing is where you watch and commentate or run your own chess engine in the Fritz GUI to analyse live games. E.g. this afternoon I was following a few live games, or rather my computer was. As soon as a move was made, my engine analysised it. If the variation was good enough, Playchess stored it in its database of positions, saving it for posterity, for others to benefit from, until a better one comes along! This feature (Let's Check) is very useful when it comes to exploring opening theory. Speaking of which there is a huge opening book (database), which shows how trendy and currently 'winning' a particular opening line is.
Remember that if you buy a recent version of Fritz (probably from 14 upwards), as long as it's new, it will have several months free membership to Playchess as part of the software, so you can try out everything that Playchess and Chessbase online has to offer, before deciding whether it is worth your money to subscribe. Personally, I think the Playchess interface is outdated and clunky, although still relatively user friendly. Newer web-based chess servers are much more attractive in what they offer in terms of fun. However, the access to the online videos (over 10,000) and up-to-date opening book maybe of more value to some.
Also, I've probably only scratched the surface in terms of what Chessbase and Fritz offer. If you're a little nerdy, you can get lost in it for hours!
Thanks m-p-b, very much appreciated.
I have never used a chess engine before. (Other than clicking on computer analysis (1 minute) for my blitz games here on chess.com).
Would you recommend Fritz 16 for a newbie?
@SeniorPatzer - Fritz 16 is great for any level player. Fritz 16 is not just a chess engine, you are talking about a Software interface that will allow you to use many engines, including Stockfish. Any Chess engines analysis will be excellent for helping you find tactical errors.
Funny that someone mentioned Rybka as being better, since Fritz 16 was written by the same person that wrote Rybka and without argument Fritz 16 is newer and better.
Here is test data to prove it:
http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/
Any modern computer engine is very strong. And will prove usefully for helping you analyze your games. Just remember a chess engine is a tool and not a chess coach.
@SeniorPatzer - Fritz 16 is great for any level player. Fritz 16 is not just a chess engine, you are talking about a Software interface that will allow you to use many engines, including Stockfish. Any Chess engines analysis will be excellent for helping you find tactical errors.
Funny that someone mentioned Rybka as being better, since Fritz 16 was written by the same person that wrote Rybka and without argument Fritz 16 is newer and better.
Here is test data to prove it:
http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/
Any modern computer engine is very strong. And will prove usefully for helping you analyze your games. Just remember a chess engine is a tool and not a chess coach.
An Amazon reviewer said that the learning curve for Fritz 16 is rather steep for a newbie. That's what I was concerned about. Do you think that's true?
@SeniorPatzer - Fritz 16 is great for any level player. Fritz 16 is not just a chess engine, you are talking about a Software interface that will allow you to use many engines, including Stockfish. Any Chess engines analysis will be excellent for helping you find tactical errors.
Funny that someone mentioned Rybka as being better, since Fritz 16 was written by the same person that wrote Rybka and without argument Fritz 16 is newer and better.
Here is test data to prove it:
http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/
Any modern computer engine is very strong. And will prove usefully for helping you analyze your games. Just remember a chess engine is a tool and not a chess coach.
An Amazon reviewer said that the learning curve for Fritz 16 is rather steep for a newbie. That's what I was concerned about. Do you think that's true?
That is true for any software.
I cannot speak for the new Fritz 16 interface since I am currently still using Fritz 15, but it looks like they have attempted to make it a little more "compartmentalized", meaning a little more user friendly for the new user. Fritz 16 is not a chess game, like some buyers may think -- it is a chess tool to help you understand the game better with computer assistance.
I feel that most that are disappointed are expecting a chess game. It is not a game package.
Oh. Ummm, but you could play against Fritz at various dialed down levels though, right?
Oh. Ummm, but you could play against Fritz at various dialed down levels though, right?
Yes. You can play against the engine at full strength or handicapped. What I like about the Fritz software is that it has something called "Friendly Mode", where the engine attempts to mimic your level of play.
The Fritz software does many things. Like I said, more then just a chess game.
Start here to get a feel for what it can do:
Does anyone know what Elo levels the various levels of play for Fritz 16 correspond to? They are just characterized by descriptive names, such as 'Club Player,' 'Hobby Player,' etc., but it would be more useful to have some sort of numerical indication. Fritz assigns players an Elo rating throughout the game, but this is absurdly inflated so it is not much help.
Generally, I find that Fritz's verbal patter during the game is not very interesting and downright irritating at times, especially when he keeps rating his position as better than it really is. He smarmy snarkiness when he's winning is also something I can do without, so I just disable the volume or turn off his side of the screen entirely.
@SeniorPatzer - Fritz 16 is great for any level player. Fritz 16 is not just a chess engine, you are talking about a Software interface that will allow you to use many engines, including Stockfish. Any Chess engines analysis will be excellent for helping you find tactical errors.
Funny that someone mentioned Rybka as being better, since Fritz 16 was written by the same person that wrote Rybka and without argument Fritz 16 is newer and better.
Here is test data to prove it:
http://www.computerchess.org.uk/ccrl/4040/
Any modern computer engine is very strong. And will prove usefully for helping you analyze your games. Just remember a chess engine is a tool and not a chess coach.
An Amazon reviewer said that the learning curve for Fritz 16 is rather steep for a newbie. That's what I was concerned about. Do you think that's true?
I can't agree with that assessment. I can't say the learning curve is easier than 15, but there's definitely more user friendly options for people who want to just jump in an play and not use all the analytical features. I'd say anyone with competent reading and comprehension skills can figure it out or read the manual if they get stuck. I personally found the program easy to migrate to from Fritz 13.
Does anyone know what Elo levels the various levels of play for Fritz 16 correspond to? They are just characterized by descriptive names, such as 'Club Player,' 'Hobby Player,' etc., but it would be more useful to have some sort of numerical indication. Fritz assigns players an Elo rating throughout the game, but this is absurdly inflated so it is not much help.
Generally, I find that Fritz's verbal patter during the game is not very interesting and downright irritating at times, especially when he keeps rating his position as better than it really is. He smarmy snarkiness when he's winning is also something I can do without, so I just disable the volume or turn off his side of the screen entirely.
Seriously? A trash-talking computer? Oh my goodness.
@kenardi Given that Fritz 16 is roughly 30 points better than its predecessor and about 40 points better than Rybka 4, which was written nearly 8 years ago, its increase in playing strength is unexceptional, to put it mildly. Those differences in ratings could be explained by better compiling of an 8 year old engine, than new coding.
I keep meaning to test both engines (Fritz 16 and Deep Rybka 4.1) with the test suites to see how they compare. In fact, I just might do that over this weekend!
your point is pointless... sorry to say 30 points trumps pointless.
your assessment better than the CCRL team? Very suspicious! Questionable and even funny.
Have a great weekend, have fun testing chess engines!
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So I let Fritz 16 play a couple of games against Komodo 11. The results were in favor of Komodo. I don't know that I had it set up correctly. To me the real reason I wanted Fritz 16 was for the interface and all the extras that come with it. Here is the game.