FUN w/Rules: en passant/stalemate


Actually, the rule is pretty clear it states: "The position reaches a stalemate where it is one player’s turn to move, but his king is NOT in check and yet he does not have another legal move"
Since en passant is a legal move, you must take it. A stalemate cannont be claimed in that position.
Actually there are two rules here, and it appears that they contradict one another, so things are not so clear. According to FIDE rules, en passant is a legal option, I 'may' take it, not I 'must' take it. To preserve the legality of the rule of 'en passant' is to preserve the player's choice. I can find no situation where FIDE addresses the player's choice of capturing 'en passant' in the contradictory context of stalemate. The result of the game is so far undecided.

Okay, then you have three options move, resign, or lose to time. To sit ad infinitum is not an option. You will ultimately lose on time while you decide to 1) take the en passant, or 2) resign. There is no suggestion that you must take the en passant, but it is your only legal move. Since it is an option, and since it is an available legal move you are not in stalemate. Thus the game and the clock continue.
Also, the rules don't contradict each other, you just don't like what they imply when each is enacted together to their logical conclusion.
Do I have any other legal move in this position? I have none. I have a choice to make an en passant capture, but I have decided not to exercise my choice as granted to me by the rules listed in the FIDE handbook.
En passant is only exercised by choice, not by force.
The clock won't run until FIDE figures out how to handle the choice of en passant, in the context of an otherwise stalemate position. Until then, the result is undecided.

i must be dense. Why is Na5 not checkmate? Or is this why Gnawvous says '..., or so I thought.' in his original post?
And I don't understand Black's plan. Even if gnawvous takes the pawn en passant, Black has to take the pawn and then it will indeed be a stalemate draw for gnawvous.


Actually there are two rules here, and it appears that they contradict one another, so things are not so clear. According to FIDE rules, en passant is a legal option, I 'may' take it, not I 'must' take it. To preserve the legality of the rule of 'en passant' is to preserve the player's choice. I can find no situation where FIDE addresses the player's choice of capturing 'en passant' in the contradictory context of stalemate. The result of the game is so far undecided.
Rules about ALL pieces are like this. You may move rook, but you mustn't. You may move knight, but you mustn't. If you think this way then you can claim stalemate on the first move

In this position, you may play Bc2. Nobody gets to tell you which move to play. You may play Bc2, or you may choose another move.
In this position, you may play Bc2, or you may choose another move. Wait, there's no other move. You still may play Bc2. Nobody gets to tell you which move to play. Bc2 is still only an option. It goes on the 'Options List.' Here's the list in its entirety:
Options List
1 - Bc2
Feel free to choose any move on that list or forfeit the point.

Ok, you guys appeared to have found something here, with the word "may" because this is what I originally thought. 'May' refers to the option that you have with any move or capture of any piece, since there are so many pieces you can't be required to move or capture all of them at once.
And then a strange thing happened.
We asked our computer to be the arbiter. And when I plugged the position into Fritz, then after 1...g5, he immediately asked for a draw. If he was forced to take en passant, then why did he also claim stalemate, just like I did? The mystery continues...

Ok, you guys appeared to have found something here, with the word "may" because this is what I originally thought. 'May' refers to the option that you have with any move or capture of any piece, since there are so many pieces you can't be required to move or capture all of them at once.
And then a strange thing happened.
We asked our computer to be the arbiter. And when I plugged the position into Fritz, then after 1...g5, he immediately asked for a draw. If he was forced to take en passant, then why did he also claim stalemate, just like I did? The mystery continues...
Then I guess your Fritz has BIG bug, because just a minute ago my Chessmaster took en passant without any draw claims. And don't think that chess programs know everything, they are just software, and any software may have a bug. Though Chessmaster doesn't.
Or may be you inputed something wrong???

Ok, you guys appeared to have found something here, with the word "may" because this is what I originally thought. 'May' refers to the option that you have with any move or capture of any piece, since there are so many pieces you can't be required to move or capture all of them at once.
And then a strange thing happened.
We asked our computer to be the arbiter. And when I plugged the position into Fritz, then after 1...g5, he immediately asked for a draw. If he was forced to take en passant, then why did he also claim stalemate, just like I did? The mystery continues...
Did it ask for a draw? or did it claim a draw? there is a difference. any player can request a draw, that doesn't mean the game is drawn. Draw CLAIMS can only be made under certain circumstances, and this isnt one of them.
EDIT: Also, which position did you put in? The only way that Fritz will see the en-passant is if it SEES black play 1...g5. If you put in the position where black has already played it, it will miss the en-passant.

Ok, you guys appeared to have found something here, with the word "may" because this is what I originally thought. 'May' refers to the option that you have with any move or capture of any piece, since there are so many pieces you can't be required to move or capture all of them at once.
And then a strange thing happened.
We asked our computer to be the arbiter. And when I plugged the position into Fritz, then after 1...g5, he immediately asked for a draw. If he was forced to take en passant, then why did he also claim stalemate, just like I did? The mystery continues...
ok, computers don't know if they can capture en passant unless you enter the move into it, as stated before. so go to the position before 1...g5, play g5, and watch fritz take en passant!
or you can be a gentleman, resign, and beat your opponent in a rematch!
It's good to know that you're all here to provide the correct interpretation, en passant is a capture like any other. So I did regretfully resign the match 0-1, then challenged my opponent to a rematch.
Unfortunately my good friend had to decline as he was in dispute over another game where the rules for castling were brought into question, and is in need of help. This is of course, another topic for discussion.
Thanks to everyone for their contribution!
I recently worked through a humiliating game, refusing to resign, thus angering my opponent, but arriving at a victorious stalemate, or so I thought. My opponent wished to further humiliate me on the last go, by forcing an en passant capture, and believed that I must take the pawn, thus losing the game. Yet I believe I have succeeded with drawing, and am not required to take en passant. What do the rules say and what should they say about stalemate and en passant? Here is the position: