What is timeout vs insufficient material?

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Lagomorph
IMRonilm1204 wrote:

i should have won because he ran out of time.

 

Nope, once you were in a situation where you could not win the game without a helpmate, the best you can hope for on chess.com is a draw.

Dj_Volt

If your opponent runs out of time but you have no possible way of mating them. happy.png

jsaepuru
IMBacon wrote:

Your opponent ran out of time, so they cannot win the game.

You have insufficnet material to win the game.  You cannot mate with a king and knight.

So the game is a draw.

You cannot mate a bare king with a king and knight. You can mate a king with material with a king and knight.

With the exception that king and knight cannot mate a king and a queen. But here the defender had pawns. Quite legitimate checkmate.

Madkiki007
I just found out that it is not a Draw because White is allowed allotted number of moves and Black could stumble into a Checkmate within those allotted number of moves. Therefore, white wins this game!
omnipaul

Rules vary regarding what is considered "sufficient material" depending on the organization.

For example, in the FIDE rules, helpmates are allowed (specifically, as long as there is a legal sequence of moves that lead to mate then the person with time left wins).

However, in USCF play, helpmates are not allowed - you have to be able to FORCE the mate to get the win on time.

Here on chess.com, the programmers opted for a simple piece count - if you have a lone king, a king and one minor piece, (or, possibly, a king and X bishops all moving on squares of the same color, I don't recall for sure), then you do not have sufficient material, regardless of whether a mate exists or even can be forced.  This typically makes it follow USCF rules, but there can be a few weird edge cases.

Lord_Hammer
omnipaul wrote:

Rules vary regarding what is considered "sufficient material" depending on the organization.

For example, in the FIDE rules, helpmates are allowed (specifically, as long as there is a legal sequence of moves that lead to mate then the person with time left wins).

However, in USCF play, helpmates are not allowed - you have to be able to FORCE the mate to get the win on time.

Here on chess.com, the programmers opted for a simple piece count - if you have a lone king, a king and one minor piece, (or, possibly, a king and X bishops all moving on squares of the same color, I don't recall for sure), then you do not have sufficient material, regardless of whether a mate exists or even can be forced.  This typically makes it follow USCF rules, but there can be a few weird edge cases.

OK, makes sense. I haven’t played OTB in simply forever, so I forgot tongue.png

Madkiki007
I have question about this scenario. White has a K and N, but Black only has a K. Black has 5 minutes on the clock and White has 1 second on the Clock. White forgets to hit the button and runs outa time. So according to FIDE Black wins?
mmm_mmmmmm
Without an a or h pawn white can’t checkmate black
jsaepuru
Madkiki007 wrote:
I have question about this scenario. White has a K and N, but Black only has a K. Black has 5 minutes on the clock and White has 1 second on the Clock. White forgets to hit the button and runs outa time. So according to FIDE Black wins?

According to Fide, the game legally ends by draw due to insufficient material as soon as neither player can legally checkmate. Such as insufficient material, like K vs. K or K and N vs. K.

If the players do not notice insufficient material and play on till resignation or flag fall then automatic draw due to insufficient material is supposed to take precedence over subsequent resignation or flag fall.

JamesAgadir
Madkiki007 a écrit :
I have question about this scenario. White has a K and N, but Black only has a K. Black has 5 minutes on the clock and White has 1 second on the Clock. White forgets to hit the button and runs outa time. So according to FIDE Black wins?

No the game would already be over because mate is impossible. But even if that weren't the case it would still be a draw. In FIDE if you can reach a position with mate on the board for the player who has not timed with the pieces present when the players times out then the player who didn't time out wins. But if mate is impossible then it's a draw

Lord_Hammer
JamesAgadir wrote:
Madkiki007 a écrit :
I have question about this scenario. White has a K and N, but Black only has a K. Black has 5 minutes on the clock and White has 1 second on the Clock. White forgets to hit the button and runs outa time. So according to FIDE Black wins?

No the game would already be over because mate is impossible. But even if that weren't the case it would still be a draw. In FIDE if you can reach a position with mate on the board for the player who has not timed with the pieces present when the players times out then the player who didn't time out wins. But if mate is impossible then it's a draw

Yes, but as previously mentioned, it’s a draw with USCF rules and White wins with FIDE rules. And chess.com uses USCF rules.