George Orwell 1984 and Chess

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Deboragh
I have noticed a few mentions in the novel 1984, by George Orwell of Chess. What do others think of this ? I wonder what the speech mentioned concerning the principles of Ingsoc and Chess would have been like ? I wonder how both could even be connected ?
brunoss1

http://billwall.phpwebhosting.com/articles/orwell_and_chess.htm

justbefair
Deboragh wrote:
I have noticed a few mentions in the novel 1984, by George Orwell of Chess. What do others think of this ? I wonder what the speech mentioned concerning the principles of Ingsoc and Chess would have been like ? I wonder how both could even be connected ?

I think you should write your own term paper.

LeeEuler

I'm assuming there is a typo in that link. Says Orwell had over 2 million published works?!

justbefair
LeeEuler wrote:

I'm assuming there is a typo in that link. Says Orwell had over 2 million published works?!

"In his lifetime, Orwell published nearly 2 million published words."

IsraeliGal

That book is a revelation i swear. If u haven't read it ur missing out. 

 

 

 

brunoss1

Even by very conservative perspectives,Orwell was quite the leftie , not shy of what many call " far left" these days ( ironically erroneously too). Hence why he became a critic of what Chomsky called "Not socialism, but the destruction of it " ( aka USSR ).. Context as always is relevant. 

IsraeliGal

Lefty? he was anti totalitarianism lol.

 

harrytipper3
Soniasthetics wrote:

Lefty? he was anti totalitarianism lol.

 

 

Was still a lefty though. Socialism and Totalitarianism aren't the same thing.

LeeEuler
justbefair wrote:
LeeEuler wrote:

I'm assuming there is a typo in that link. Says Orwell had over 2 million published works?!

"In his lifetime, Orwell published nearly 2 million published words."

ah, k's and d's, never could get them straight

brunoss1

Conflating  the political left with authoritarianism  is a grave and gross distortion , only second to saying the Nazis were socialists. Just about every right, human or otherwise were achieved only by the restless " far left" ( cough cough). Some say that without the greed of the Right, the left need not even exit . Orwell was quite far to the left even by todays standards. Not your armchair part-time socialist either. The man went to spain to kill fascists. 

IsraeliGal
harrytipper3 wrote:
Soniasthetics wrote:

Lefty? he was anti totalitarianism lol.

 

 

Was still a lefty though. Socialism and Totalitarianism aren't the same thing.

They kinda are. Socialism can't survive without Totalitarianism. 

 

IsraeliGal
brunoss1 wrote:

Conflating  the political left with authoritarianism  is a grave and gross distortion , only second to saying the Nazis were socialists. Just about every right, human or otherwise were achieved only by the restless " far left" ( cough cough). Some say that without the greed of the Right, the left need not even exit . Orwell was quite far to the left even by todays standards. Not your armchair part-time socialist either. The man went to spain to kill fascists. 

If u dont think the Nazi's were socialist u have no grasp of history.

 

brunoss1

To avoid writing an essay, I'd ask : Ever read Marx? 
As to Nazis being "Socialist, some history 101 should clarify, so that e do not get confused just by a name ( The TitMouse bird comes to mind). Incidentally , the last Conservative MEP who Mae such a barbaric claim was booed to silence , called an idiot and forced to apologise for his historical illiteracy. He has a PhD in economics, funny enough .
But... If that is still not enough, Hitler himself wrote about how he used the ruse of the popularity of socialism at the time to gather support. 
If only Hitler had clarified this himself. Oh wait he did. He, too, mocked those who confused the two. 
There, this is why you shouldn't bunk history classes 

brunoss1

*sorry for typos 

harrytipper3
Soniasthetics wrote:

They kinda are. Socialism can't survive without Totalitarianism. 

 

 

We've had socialist governments here in the UK, without totalitarism. Whether those socialist governments were actually beneficial for the country is another matter ofc. 

George Orwell is a famous example of a socialist anti totalitarismist. His book "Animal farm" starts by praising the ideals behind marxism, then the rest of the book hates (in Orwells satirical way) on totalitarism and all the stuff that comes with it, from propaganda to mass killings. 

brunoss1

Socialism and Left are vague terms branded about a lot. Marx wrote 10 thousand pages literally on pure economics, while no more than twelve on all else, like the materialistic conception of history, etc. 
People who never learnt about political philosophy and its  history, some philosophy of economics and oit's history and some basic general world history usually spend the rest of their lives shouting " Venezuela" and "USSR" when they hear word socialism, as if the rest of us can not see at a mile that it is just illiteracy on these topics being loud and brash. 

Pulpofeira

I read somewhere that you don't see actual games I the book, only the main character trying to solve puzzles. And it's stated that in those, white always win. Good (the party) always beats evil (dissidents), this from the party's point of view.

Pulpofeira

Here: http://deludoscachorum.blogspot.com/2021/01/1984.html?m=1

Pulpofeira
brunoss1 escribió:

Socialism and Left are vague terms branded about a lot. Marx wrote 10 thousand pages literally on pure economics, while no more than twelve on all else, like the materialistic conception of history, etc. 
People who never learnt about political philosophy and its  history, some philosophy of economics and oit's history and some basic general world history usually spend the rest of their lives shouting " Venezuela" and "USSR" when they hear word socialism, as if the rest of us can not see at a mile that it is just illiteracy on these topics being loud and brash. 

Well said.

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