Let's hope Naka gets into his peak form and starts beating everyone. His last tournament was pretty good.
Hikaru Nakamura can become a world chess champion
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ChrisWainscott wrote:
That is why I said, Naka is a huge talent. He was top 5 in the world largely due to his talent, not because if his prep. How many games has Naka won due to prep? This sort of win is always characterized by no time used on the clock....I don't think there are any....
But relying on talent will only get you so far. Are you suggesting Kris Littlejohn has had a lot to do with his success? Well then, Kris has not done a good job for the past couple of years if that's what you're saying.
No, Debistro, it’s not about anyone with stockfish and a computer.
It’s about someone who has a high level of understanding (Kris does) and the ability to apply that understanding to what they’re looking at with the engine (Kris can.)
Hikaru has been #2 in the world. Most of the others with the teams of GM’s you speak of have not done the same.
Also, I find it hilarious that you’re assuming Kris works cheaper than GM’s.
Apr 19, 2019
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#44
Debistro wrote:
ChrisWainscott wrote:
That is why I said, Naka is a huge talent. He was top 5 in the world largely due to his talent, not because if his prep. How many games has Naka won due to prep? This sort of win is always characterized by no time used on the clock....I don't think there are any.... But relying on talent will only get you so far. Are you suggesting Kris Littlejohn has had a lot to do with his success? Well then, Kris has not done a good job for the past couple of years if that's what you're saying.
No, Debistro, it’s not about anyone with stockfish and a computer.
It’s about someone who has a high level of understanding (Kris does) and the ability to apply that understanding to what they’re looking at with the engine (Kris can.)
Hikaru has been #2 in the world. Most of the others with the teams of GM’s you speak of have not done the same.
Also, I find it hilarious that you’re assuming Kris works cheaper than GM’s.
As I have already said in terms of raw talent Naka is ahead of everyone. The issue is he has get everything in order and focus on classical chess completely.
Apr 19, 2019
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#45
Debistro, I generally try not to go down this road, but how many conversations have you had with Hikaru concerning his work with Kris?
Also, wins due to prep are not a case of no time being used on the clock most of the time. They’re about getting a nice advantage and then winning. Sometimes you don’t win until the endgame.
Recent wins due to prep...Robson, Sevian, and Xiong in the US Championships a couple of weeks ago come to mind.
Also, wins due to prep are not a case of no time being used on the clock most of the time. They’re about getting a nice advantage and then winning. Sometimes you don’t win until the endgame.
Recent wins due to prep...Robson, Sevian, and Xiong in the US Championships a couple of weeks ago come to mind.
Apr 19, 2019
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#46
Nakamura could never become the world chess champion anymore. At least very unlikely. Magnus Carlson (just one of the players that would stand in his way) is a good deal better than him in standard and better than him on everything else. Hikaru is incredible and he is one of the best blitz and bullet players ever but not in standard. He is past his prime in standard anyway. If you asked him about it I am sure he would tell you that becoming world champion is not even really one of his goals. (At least not anymore)
Apr 19, 2019
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#47
Debistro wrote:
Naka is a HUGE talent. Anyone who can play Chess960 well, and also play blitz and bullet so well, is hugely talented. But Naka probably failed to focus during his prime years, and maybe he kept on relying on his 2100 NM friend when at the top level, you need not one, but several strong GMs to help your opening prep (plus strong computers). You cannot simply rely on your talent alone. This is not 1970 Fischer era. This is not right. Fischer did not rely on his talent even though that took him far. He studied like no other when it came to chess. He did not have a team but he had books upon books and he did it himself.
Even his stint with Garry Kasparov did not work out (perhaps a clash of egos), although I feel Naka could indeed have learned a lot from Kasparov because both have similar styles of play and for the simple fact, that Kasparov has been there and done that. And Carlsen himself said no one has a better feel for chess dynamics than Kasparov.
Naka has what Caruana lacks, and vice versa. That is the problem.
Apr 19, 2019
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#48
NBumaye wrote:
Nakamura could never become the world chess champion anymore. At least very unlikely. Magnus Carlson (just one of the players that would stand in his way) is a good deal better than him in standard and better than him on everything else. Hikaru is incredible and he is one of the best blitz and bullet players ever but not in standard. He is past his prime in standard anyway. If you asked him about it I am sure he would tell you that becoming world champion is not even really one of his goals. (At least not anymore)
Are you kidding me? Any top level player has a goal to become a champion.
ChrisWainscott wrote:
Debistro, I generally try not to go down this road, but how many conversations have you had with Hikaru concerning his work with Kris?
Also, wins due to prep are not a case of no time being used on the clock most of the time. They’re about getting a nice advantage and then winning. Sometimes you don’t win until the endgame.
Recent wins due to prep...Robson, Sevian, and Xiong in the US Championships a couple of weeks ago come to mind.
I will ask you a simple question. Can you imagine Naka winning the Candidates and then facing Carlsen (or whoever) in the WCC with just Kris Littlejohn, a 2100 NM? Yes or no? I know about fairy tales, but let's stick to real life. This is NOT 1970 Bobby Fischer era, that era is over.
I for one, cannot imagine such a scenario. I don't think Carlsen himself would dare enter a WCC with just a 2100 NM friend as his second, if you put Carlsen in Naka's shoes.
Apr 20, 2019
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#50
People mistake how good Hikaru is all the time. They see how good he is at blitz and bullet and then think that he must be on the same level in standard, but that is not true. I am sure he has done all he can to be the best he can at standard...some people are much better at blitz and bullet than they are at standard. Or much worse at standard than they are at blitz and billet. For example Caruana.
Apr 20, 2019
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#51
If he was playing in the championship of course he’d put together a team.
That’s ridiculous.
However, short of that most guys only have one coach. Hikaru’s is Kris.
Kris has clearly done great work.
So again, the knocks on him are both ridiculous and unwarranted.
That’s ridiculous.
However, short of that most guys only have one coach. Hikaru’s is Kris.
Kris has clearly done great work.
So again, the knocks on him are both ridiculous and unwarranted.
Apr 20, 2019
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#52
hikarunaku wrote:
NBumaye wrote:
Nakamura could never become the world chess champion anymore. At least very unlikely. Magnus Carlson (just one of the players that would stand in his way) is a good deal better than him in standard and better than him on everything else. Hikaru is incredible and he is one of the best blitz and bullet players ever but not in standard. He is past his prime in standard anyway. If you asked him about it I am sure he would tell you that becoming world champion is not even really one of his goals. (At least not anymore)
Are you kidding me? Any top level player has a goal to become a champion.
Not true. I bet you would be surprised. Maybe all top players have at one point Gad that goal but many realiz that it is simply not going to happen. So maybe you could say every top young player has that goal...and even then it is a stretch.
Apr 20, 2019
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#53
DamonevicSmithlov wrote:
You are right. This is the best opportunity for Naka and I am sure he will make use of it.
Apr 20, 2019
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#54
Try and research Hikaru's early days of chess playing. You'll only find glossed over accounts of his "potential." It's almost as if everything regarding his "character" in those days has been erased. The fact is, most all the chess community did not respect his manner, the brashness, the insults directed towards his peers. Sure, he had enormous talent, which was recognized, but he made zero friends with fellow players, coaches, Tournament directors, etc. This is clearly evident today, as he is not "socially accepted" as one of them. He has an effective marketing team. Has been quite succesful at changing the public's perception. He as gone to great lengths in interviews and appearances, to change his "image." Andre Agassi and John McEnroe come to mind. Today they are well respected in the Tennis community and the media, but it took Years of effort and a complete make-over. Naka was a brash, obnoxious, rude and disrespectful person in his early days. It's difficult for many to forget. The "it's just arrogance, but one well deserved" does not rest well with many.
So the question is ... does such a person with his youthful character flaws, have what it takes to one day become a WC ? Many would suggest becoming a WC is for those of different character, although BF proved this wrong.
Apr 20, 2019
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#55
Um...Carlsen has some serious character issues as well.
Hikaru will be the first to admit that he was a jerk in his youth, but he’s gone to great lengths to correct a lot of that personally with the people involved.
Hikaru will be the first to admit that he was a jerk in his youth, but he’s gone to great lengths to correct a lot of that personally with the people involved.
Apr 21, 2019
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#57
hikarunaku wrote:
"It's hard to be humble, when you're as great as I am."
Muhammad Ali
Very true. Most people underestimate how hard it is to be humble with such skill and talent.
Apr 21, 2019
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#59
NBumaye wrote:
Titled_Patzer please don’t compare Hikaru to Bobby Fischer.
I sense someone who idolizes BF. Anyway, it is my opinion, BF severely damaged the image (chess players) the general non-playing public has, especially true outside the U.S. This negative image may never be recovered and has yet to be repaired.
Apr 21, 2019
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#60
Tell your neighbor you play chess. Chances are they'll respond with , yeah.. I've heard of that nutcase BF ... aren't all chess players like him?
It is easy for chess players to "over-look" his character flaws, as they appreciate his playing skills. But to the general public, his chess skills make no difference what-so-ever when it comes to evaluating a persons persona.
Naka is a HUGE talent. Anyone who can play Chess960 well, and also play blitz and bullet so well, is hugely talented. But Naka probably failed to focus during his prime years, and maybe he kept on relying on his 2100 NM friend when at the top level, you need not one, but several strong GMs to help your opening prep (plus strong computers). You cannot simply rely on your talent alone. This is not 1970 Fischer era.
Even his stint with Garry Kasparov did not work out (perhaps a clash of egos), although I feel Naka could indeed have learned a lot from Kasparov because both have similar styles of play and for the simple fact, that Kasparov has been there and done that. And Carlsen himself said no one has a better feel for chess dynamics than Kasparov.
Naka has what Caruana lacks, and vice versa. That is the problem.
I disagree with almost everything you said, plus you make a lot of assumptions. I don't want to break down everything I disagree with, so just off the top of my head...
Naka didn't focus during his prime years? WTH. Do you say this about everyone who isn't world champ? Isn't it a million times more likely that Naka just wasn't good enough?
Another simple error. You learn the most from people with opposite strengths. You say Naka could learn a lot from Kasparov due to their both enjoying dynamics, but you have it backwards.
Also you can't compare Naka and Caruana as if they're the same level of player. They aren't.
I guess you did not follow Naka's commentary during the WCC. He was spot on for his on-the-spot analysis, and if he had taken over Caruana's seat in game 8, he would have won in Caruana's place. Caruana spent nearly 1 hour calculating what Naka could immediately see, and yet still made two blunders that threw all his advantage away. And we know what happened in the Rapid tiebreaks held a short while later....
The same fearsome Carlsen did not look so menacing in the Rapid WCC ......only he was made to look that way by Caruana. Did he not lose the first two games to some low ranked players?
But Caruana is well known for his preparation and did you know Caruana has had seconds for a long time (and even a coach)? Naka is everything Caruana is not, and vice versa.
And when I say "focus" I mean the whole entire deal. Naka still did not have a solid team behind him when he was 2800 and top 5 (or top 3) in the world. When you are top 5, if you really want to get anywhere, you need a few seconds and very solid prep, something Caruana has always had for some time now. Even Giri has seconds and a coach if I am not mistaken (and he has yet to win anything all this while).
You are trying to push your "Carlsen is so super strong and several levels above anyone" rhetoric, that's why you disagree with me. It's fine. Lots of Carlsen fanboys around. Maybe Caruana should get Kasparov as a coach (if he is willing), and inject that dynamism into his game that he is lacking.
Kasparov said that any GM can find 90% of the moves played in the WCC match, it's only a few moves that make the difference.
Of course Naka is not "any GM." He is one of the strongest in the world. Not only that, but it's easy to analyze under zero pressure, and not playing game day after day. I'm sure Caruana saw all the same ideas, but when you're under pressure and lack of sleep you doubt yourself, you double and triple check, and sometimes due to fatigue you get confused.
You make a good point about preparation and seconds. In that sense maybe Caruana is opposite to Naka.
As for Carlsen, I'm not a fanboy. Like Finegold would say "the truth hurts" and the truth is Naka is not in the same class as Carlsen. Naka is a 2700 player (ok, he accidentally broke 2800 for 1 tournament or something) and Carlsen has been over 2800 non-stop since age 18. Think about that for a second.
The thread is not about comparing Naka to Carlsen, but whether Naka can be a world champion. And I've already given my opinion that with the enormous talent he has, yes he could be one. More so than many other 2700s.
But he may be past his prime for that. And whether he really wants to, is another matter.
He can of course, still prove us all wrong, but you cannot fight time. It's generally considered that nowadays, 30+ is past prime age. MVL has said he is worried that time is running out for him.
I remember reading some USCF article about Naka making a push for the WCC title. He was training and placing 2nd and 1st in tournaments. Maybe around 2010?
And we all know how that worked out.
Of course he's a super elite player, a perennial top 10 player, but only 1 person can be world champion, and #10, while in some respects very close to #1 is at the same time impossibly far apart.