How did all GMs develop a good blindfold ability?

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Niska1

My goal is to become a GM in a few years (My strength is a bit lower than FM) and I’ve been seeing many GMs and prodigies being able to visualize positions and games in their head very clearly. (On YouTube)

One example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD8kmawCvIE


How did they develop this ability? Did they have to do a lot of blindfold exercises or it just came naturally with how much calculation/training they did? When I try to visualize the board, I can’t see the whole of it and if there is a piece on h1 and piece on a8 then I can’t see them both. 

justbefair
Niska1 wrote:

My goal is to become a GM in a few years (My strength is a bit lower than FM) and I’ve been seeing many GMs and prodigies being able to visualize positions and games in their head very clearly. (On YouTube)

One example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD8kmawCvIE


How did they develop this ability? Did they have to do a lot of blindfold exercises or it just came naturally with how much calculation/training they did? When I try to visualize the board, I can’t see the whole of it and if there is a piece on h1 and piece on a8 then I can’t see them both. 

Have you read https://www.blindfoldchess.net/. ?

Niska1
justbefair wrote:
Niska1 wrote:

My goal is to become a GM in a few years (My strength is a bit lower than FM) and I’ve been seeing many GMs and prodigies being able to visualize positions and games in their head very clearly. (On YouTube)

One example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD8kmawCvIE


How did they develop this ability? Did they have to do a lot of blindfold exercises or it just came naturally with how much calculation/training they did? When I try to visualize the board, I can’t see the whole of it and if there is a piece on h1 and piece on a8 then I can’t see them both. 

Have you read https://www.blindfoldchess.net/. ?

 


No but I want to get better at visualizing a chess board without a board and being able to move the pieces easily. 

justbefair
Niska1 wrote:
justbefair wrote:
Niska1 wrote:

My goal is to become a GM in a few years (My strength is a bit lower than FM) and I’ve been seeing many GMs and prodigies being able to visualize positions and games in their head very clearly. (On YouTube)

One example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD8kmawCvIE


How did they develop this ability? Did they have to do a lot of blindfold exercises or it just came naturally with how much calculation/training they did? When I try to visualize the board, I can’t see the whole of it and if there is a piece on h1 and piece on a8 then I can’t see them both. 

Have you read https://www.blindfoldchess.net/. ?

 


No but I want to get better at visualizing a chess board without a board and being able to move the pieces easily. 

Yes. I understood that.

The book's highlights day that it provides tips on how to do that.

Niska1
justbefair wrote:
Niska1 wrote:
justbefair wrote:
Niska1 wrote:

My goal is to become a GM in a few years (My strength is a bit lower than FM) and I’ve been seeing many GMs and prodigies being able to visualize positions and games in their head very clearly. (On YouTube)

One example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD8kmawCvIE


How did they develop this ability? Did they have to do a lot of blindfold exercises or it just came naturally with how much calculation/training they did? When I try to visualize the board, I can’t see the whole of it and if there is a piece on h1 and piece on a8 then I can’t see them both. 

Have you read https://www.blindfoldchess.net/. ?

 


No but I want to get better at visualizing a chess board without a board and being able to move the pieces easily. 

Yes. I understood that.

The book's highlights day that it provides tips on how to do that.

 


Okay cool. But what I want to know is how these prodigies like Nihal Sarin were able to have this ability at such a young age. Did they do blindfold training when they started playing chess?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2wPAv4uqaZ8 A video of 11 year old Sarin solving endgame puzzles in his head 

TrickyConman

At young age, usually the brain is at its peak in visualization and learning. If you were to study blindfold chess with pure dedication at a young age, you would have probably mastered it quickly. 

Niska1
TrickyConman wrote:

At young age, usually the brain is at its peak in visualization and learning. If you were to study blindfold chess with pure dedication at a young age, you would have probably mastered it quickly. 


I’m 15, so would I be able to do it? Is it necessary also to be good at blindfold chess to be a GM? 

TrickyConman
Niska1 wrote:
TrickyConman wrote:

At young age, usually the brain is at its peak in visualization and learning. If you were to study blindfold chess with pure dedication at a young age, you would have probably mastered it quickly. 


I’m 15, so would I be able to do it? Is it necessary also to be good at blindfold chess to be a GM? 

Not sure. 15 seems to be tad bit late to call it the similar state of kids since it’s near to 18 (adult). Still, there should be enough juice of visualization in your brain there. Plus, it varies from person to person. Give it a try. Who knows. 

StormCentre3

Eidetic Memory -

Is not learned or can be trained for. Your memory can improve through exercise - perhaps recall longer lines. But the ability to visualize and recall images exactly as they were is a gift- a talent born with. 
Most all Elite players have an eidetic memory to some degree. Obviously the ability is an advantage- but not necessary for good chess play. 

punter99

Good visualization is very important in order to calculate quickly and precisely. I think they mainly solved lots of puzzles "from the book" without moving pieces. That's more helpful than online puzzles where you see the new position after every move.

Playing some blindfold games occasionally is also useful. Nowadays it's easily possible to play blindfold online, I remember when I was a little kid, we played a lot of blindfold chess in the car when we were going to tournaments.

Niska1
punter99 wrote:

Good visualization is very important in order to calculate quickly and precisely. I think they mainly solved lots of puzzles "from the book" without moving pieces. That's more helpful than online puzzles where you see the new position after every move.

Playing some blindfold games occasionally is also useful. Nowadays it's easily possible to play blindfold online, I remember when I was a little kid, we played a lot of blindfold chess in the car when we were going to tournaments.


You always give the best advice or explanation! Thanks

4kingknight
punter99 wrote:

Good visualization is very important in order to calculate quickly and precisely. I think they mainly solved lots of puzzles "from the book" without moving pieces. That's more helpful than online puzzles where you see the new position after every move.

Playing some blindfold games occasionally is also useful. Nowadays it's easily possible to play blindfold online, I remember when I was a little kid, we played a lot of blindfold chess in the car when we were going to tournaments.

People with aphantasia are very good at blindfold chess, and they cannot visualize anything. Calculation is the common factor between visual thinkers, aphantasics, and Chess. Visualization is not necessary in Chess, and I’m not sure why that wives tale still circulates. Visualization is only one way of thinking. 

SeniorPatzer
kingattacker3 wrote:
TrickyConman wrote:

At young age, usually the brain is at its peak in visualization and learning. If you were to study blindfold chess with pure dedication at a young age, you would have probably mastered it quickly. 

And unfortunately I take it as we get near/past 50 our brains aren't so hot at this...

 

Nooooooooo!!

snoozyman

Pin the Tail on the Donkey

punter99
4kingknight wrote:
punter99 wrote:

Good visualization is very important in order to calculate quickly and precisely. I think they mainly solved lots of puzzles "from the book" without moving pieces. That's more helpful than online puzzles where you see the new position after every move.

Playing some blindfold games occasionally is also useful. Nowadays it's easily possible to play blindfold online, I remember when I was a little kid, we played a lot of blindfold chess in the car when we were going to tournaments.

People with aphantasia are very good at blindfold chess, and they cannot visualize anything. Calculation is the common factor between visual thinkers, aphantasics, and Chess. Visualization is not necessary in Chess, and I’m not sure why that wives tale still circulates. Visualization is only one way of thinking. 

Okay. But if he wants to become an IM or GM, he must be able to calculate deeply, precisely and efficiently and he must be able to evaluate these positions correctly in his head. If he is able to do all that without what is called visualization, fine. But good visualization certainly makes it much more easier and should be trained.

I guess that wives tale still circulates because the word is often used in chess literature, for example in Aagaard's Excelling at Chess Calculation.

4kingknight
punter99 wrote:
4kingknight wrote:
punter99 wrote:

Good visualization is very important in order to calculate quickly and precisely. I think they mainly solved lots of puzzles "from the book" without moving pieces. That's more helpful than online puzzles where you see the new position after every move.

Playing some blindfold games occasionally is also useful. Nowadays it's easily possible to play blindfold online, I remember when I was a little kid, we played a lot of blindfold chess in the car when we were going to tournaments.

People with aphantasia are very good at blindfold chess, and they cannot visualize anything. Calculation is the common factor between visual thinkers, aphantasics, and Chess. Visualization is not necessary in Chess, and I’m not sure why that wives tale still circulates. Visualization is only one way of thinking. 

Okay. But if he wants to become an IM or GM, he must be able to calculate deeply, precisely and efficiently and he must be able to evaluate these positions correctly in his head. If he is able to do all that without what is called visualization, fine. But good visualization certainly makes it much more easier and should be trained.

I guess that wives tale still circulates because the word is often used in chess literature, for example in Aagaard's Excelling at Chess Calculation.

Visualization does not make Chess easier, and I will argue that visualization is the slower and less efficient method of thinking. Think about it from a computer hard drive perspective.  

BestSell

In the case of GMs, I believe their visualization ability developed as a result of their exposure to the game at a young age, when their brains were still aggressively developing.

Though, if you want to practice and improve your blindfold abilities yourself, you can do so on this site. There's an option to set your pieces to "Blindfold" in your game settings. You can then play against other humans, or against bots, to practice the skill.

You won't see the pieces -- you'll only see the empty board, and a highlighted square to match the most recent move.

It's not easy, especially for those of us who don't have exceptional visualization abilities.

darkunorthodox88
Niska1 wrote:

My goal is to become a GM in a few years (My strength is a bit lower than FM) and I’ve been seeing many GMs and prodigies being able to visualize positions and games in their head very clearly. (On YouTube)

One example: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BD8kmawCvIE


How did they develop this ability? Did they have to do a lot of blindfold exercises or it just came naturally with how much calculation/training they did? When I try to visualize the board, I can’t see the whole of it and if there is a piece on h1 and piece on a8 then I can’t see them both. 

if you are close to FM and cant visualize the position you just played on top of your head, you are the odd one out. 

most expert level players can play at least 1 blindfold chessgame at a time.

But here is a little trade secret. Unless you are really strong, you rarely have the whole chess board in sight when you play blind. Its a sort of ranging focus, like looking through a telescope with only a hazy memory of other things on the board depending on where the relevant action is. You can recall where things are if you decide to focus on that side of the board (like moving quickly the telescope to see a section of the board) but you rarely have the whole thing in direct sight.

studies on chess ability show that even master level players are no better than non-players in remembering random chess pieces on a board. its not eidetic memory (although its probably true that a handful of the very strongest are blessed with this). its years upon years of built in pattern recognition.  Some players dream legal chess positions and even combinations.

StormCentre3

“In the case of GMs, I believe their visualization ability developed as a result of their exposure to the game at a young age, when their brains were still aggressively developing.“

Dont know of any clinical studies- as it proves very difficult to measure and quantity. 

#19 makes insightful observations in practice. 
My feeling is the so- called “prodigies” are born with a highly developed eidetic memory and only later discover chess. It is this natural ability that draws them to chess. Not the other way around- that an ability to play blindfold comes after a great deal of exposer. As 19 points out - experts can play 1 blindfold game with a high level of concentration. The entire board is not necessarily essayed in a single glance but can be viewed as looking through a telescope at a given section of space. Short term  recall ability can be practiced and improved upon. 
But the ability to play multiple blindfold games is quite a different story, not tied directly to chess ability or amount of practice. An eidetic memory is a gift (some with it call it a curse when too much data keeps cluttering the brain). We think of Beth Harmon visualizing/ actually seeing the entire game on the ceiling or Naka looking off into space. Images appear with perfect recall . This is a talent that can’t be taught or learned to perform.

 

StormCentre3

I’d suggest the top 10 players all have an eidetic memory. How advanced, to what degree? Difficult to measure. We are all born with unique abilities. It’s an age old debate- can these be learned and acquired by someone else.

Many like to believe- anything is possible through hard work and practice. They too could be a Carlsen given the resources, time and enthusiasm. Nothing separates them in the “smarts” department.
The ability to play a blindfold game can certainly be mastered through practice by expert players. But the ability to play multiple games at an age of 10 is not something taught. There is no magic formula to pass on. It’s in the genes. 

 

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