How much Odds to play against a Super GM?

Hi friends,

Just had this queer thought in my mind. How much odds do you think it will take for you to definitely win against a Super Grand Master (read Carlsen/Kasparov/Fischer/Capablanca etc. etc.) in chess?

For definition and various types of odds, refer link below.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chess_handicap

I think I should be able to definitely win against any of these Super GMs with Knight odds (irrespective of color).

How about you guys. What do you think?

Thanks and Cheers,

rook

There's an anecdote:

Lasker once met a novice; the novice, not knowing who he was, offered him Queen odds in a game.  Lasker accepted, threw two games, then declared that the novice must have won because he was playing without his queen.  Lasker then offered the novice Queen odds and proceeded to crush him in two consecutive games.

In short, be careful with your comparisons.

What is your FIDE? If it's lower than about 2550, then you are seriously mistaken.

knight, bishop or three pawns

king odds

i have a 100% cance of winning

BEAT THAT

I think specifying which piece he must checkmate me with and draw odds (I win with a draw) would be pretty good odds. (I'd choose his d or e pawn....)

....

Actually, now I really want to try that. Any high rated players around want to try this in an unrated game? I know it's not super gm, but still...

 Even with your "credentials" I think for you to win you would need tighter time odds. A very good game can be played in 15 min and we are talking about a 2700++ rated GM (Super Grandmaster). A regualr GM pales in comparison and himself would have trouble beating such a man with the time odds you put up.

@ chry3841,

Extending your post, given a choice out of your 3 options, I would go for Knight or Bishop rather than 3 pawns odds.

I feel, the biggest fear we mortals have against say a Super GM is getting trapped in a strong attack leading to a mating net right in the middle game itself rather than getting outplayed in the endgame or opening, and mating nets happen predominantly with pieces!So, I feel removing his/her minor piece should be better than removing 3 pawns. Just my opinion though :)

Cheers,

 This post reminded me of something kinda sad... "I feel removing his/her" there aren't any female "Super Grandmasters". Just thought I would make the comment.

This reminds me about the days when I ran the Palo Alto Chess Club and some new guy would walk in and challenge anyone in the club at a 5 minute game, and the other player could have 10 minutes.  Some out-ot-town master thought he could clean up and pick on everyone as he picked on the lower rated players.  Then I pointed this out-out-town arrogant master to play the guy in the corner, and you can have your 5 minute time, but he will take only 1 minute.  The master said no one could beat him at that odds, so sat down and got beat game after game after game.  The arrogant master never returned.  The player was nice guy Craig Mar, whose USCF rating was 2525 and Quick rating of 2520.

A great handicap is to ask him to make a different legal move at any stage.

Any one such request equates to about 250 rating points, I reckon. So, five of those and I can give anybody a game :)

@ zxb9911,

Good one :). Natalia, are you listening.

If many are interested, how about someone starting a "Odds" tournaments where players with a rating gap of say, 300-400 points are paired together. What kind of odds could be suitably decided for the whole tournament.

Sounds interesting. What say people. Anyone game?

Cheers,

i think i could beat zombie fischer or capa with bishop odds

Dont know if I remember this story correctly:

Bobby Fischer once claimed he could beat any female player with Knight odds. Somebody (Tal?) commented: Ficher is Fischer, but a horse is a horse....

 In the era he said that and considering the man he was that was probably true. But now there is no man alive that can boast such a thing.

I'd agree with that. I get 60 minutes, and the super-GM gets 15 seconds. I'm pretty sure I could win that.

Or without time odds, I'd think I'd have good chances with queen odds. I might be good enough to survive rook odds, but I wouldn't bet on it. After all, I'm only 1750ish USCF, so about 1000 points lower.

Ahhca, I've actually seen an "all odds" tournament. At the Florida State Championship every year, they do a "29 minus" (I think that's what it's called) side event every year. Basically, it's a tournament where everybody has 29 minutes minus their rating divided by 100, rounded down, in every game. So if you're rated 1500, you'll always have 14 minutes on the clock in every game. GM Julio Becerra, rated over 2600, always had 3 minutes on his clock every game. I remember he still won the event with that kind of odds when I last went to that event in 2008.

Me? -Normal pieces & 60 minutes of time

The Grandmaster:

The sun in his/her eyes.

10 seconds of time.

Sticky dried up syrup all over their pieces.

He/she had to be up and awake for 48 hours with no sleep before the start of the game.

Homer Simpson standing behind me, making faces at my opponent.

I get to eat a gourmet meal while playing & they can only be driven crazy by the aroma.

Under these conditions, I might have a chance (maybe)

That sounds really cool Fromper :). Wish they had something like that down here too.

I was asking if some interested premium member could start a similar "Odds" tournament here where we all can take part!. (A knights odd tournament with pairings of 300-400 points difference should be interesting and balanced enough I suppose). What say people?

Cheers

I think in that same wiki article it shows that a super GM (say 2800) could still beat, just barely, a 2100 player with knight odds.  So all you people saying knight or bishop odds are crazy, you'd lose so bad...

The point is at each rating material is worth different amounts.  Giving a total beginner knight odds might increase their rating 25-50 points lets say, while giving an 1800 player knight odds increases their rating 600 points.

So for me lets say something like two knights odds.  With rook odds I still wouldn't be sure I could win lol.

The 29 minus tournament sounds interesting, but basically for each 100 points you only lose a minute, I'm not surprised the highest rated player still wins, 1 minute for 100 points isn't enough compensation 

Even with 60 minutes to 1 vs a super GM I'm not sure I could win, at some point time odds alone isn't enough.