How were the Soviet players trained?

Sort:
ipcress12

According to the patriarch of Soviet chess, Mikhail Botvinnik, four basic principles that form a chess player's strength are chess talent, a strong character, health and special preparation.

GM Irina Mikhailova, Trainer, Petrosian Chess Club (Moscow)

DazedKnight: I'm struck that most of the top Soviet players I've read about seem like basically decent human beings -- not saints but decent. I wouldn't say that about their communist overseers of course.

dzikus
ipcress12 napisał:

According to the patriarch of Soviet chess, Mikhail Botvinnik, four basic principles that form a chess player's strength are chess talent, a strong character, health and special preparation.

GM Irina Mikhailova, Trainer, Petrosian Chess Club (Moscow)

DazedKnight: I'm struck that most of the top Soviet players I've read about seem like basically decent human beings -- not saints but decent. I wouldn't say that about their communist overseers of course.

Maybe this comes together with the strong character pointed out by Botvinnik? They did not let the system convert them into miserable cockroaches as the politicians used to be in communist countries.

I can say the greatest players (excluding Kasparov) were also modest. World champions like Petrosian, Spassky or Karpov respected their opponents. It could be seen e.g. in Karpov's annotations to his best games: not trying to show how superior he was but also pointing out opponent's good moves and ideas.

I met Karpov live on the World Blitz Cup in 2000 and found him a very friendly person. He let me took a photo with him, signed his book and behaved like a normal chess player not the great star (who he absolutely is).

ipcress12

MFCCoach: That's pretty cool that Soltis has an article in Britannica, and a good one at that.

However, I'm not interested here in the theory or style of play advocated by the Soviet School. I want to know about their training techniques. Soltis touches on that though I'd like to know more:

Botvinnik's major contributions included finding an optimal way of preparing for a game. He studied the strengths and weaknesses of opponents he was likely to meet in the near future. He analyzed the amount of time he had spent on particular moves in order to think more efficiently. He played training games to test his nerves and concentration skills under conditions simulating tournament play--even encouraging an opponent to smoke cigarettes.

Was this part of the training Spassky, say, received in chess school? Probably, but it would be nice to have more detail.

TetsuoShima
ipcress12 wrote:

MFCCoach: That's pretty cool that Soltis has an article in Britannica, and a good one at that.

However, I'm not interested here in the theory or style of play advocated by the Soviet School. I want to know about their training techniques. Soltis touches on that though I'd like to know more:

Botvinnik's major contributions included finding an optimal way of preparing for a game. He studied the strengths and weaknesses of opponents he was likely to meet in the near future. He analyzed the amount of time he had spent on particular moves in order to think more efficiently. He played training games to test his nerves and concentration skills under conditions simulating tournament play--even encouraging an opponent to smoke cigarettes.

Was this part of the training Spassky, say, received in chess school? Probably, but it would be nice to have more detail.

yes the smoking part seems to be a very realistic part of spasskys training

ipcress12

This is the iconic Spassky photo for me:

royalbishop

When they are 8 yrs old a picture of Bobby Fischer and Rocky IV

to start them off with their training.

royalbishop

They may have changed the picture of Fischer for George Bush.

ipcress12

Back in the sixties I read a fascinating Cold War book on how Soviet spies, especially those  destined to work in the US, were trained: "School for Spies" by J. Bernard Hutton.

The Soviets went to great lengths to provide excellent training, beyond good textbooks and top instructors. The young spies actually lived in the equivalent of Hollywood sets replicating the environments of the country each was assigned to infiltrate!

As I've said, I can't help but believe the top Soviet chess players received some very interesting training. There's no denying the results.

Given how few specifics I can find on the program, it seems like something is being hidden.

AlCzervik

They were given a lot of steroids.

royalbishop
ipcress12 wrote:

Back in the sixties I read a fascinating Cold War book on how Soviet spies, especially those  destined to work in the US, were trained: "School for Spies" by J. Bernard Hutton.

The Soviets went to great lengths to provide excellent training, beyond good textbooks and top instructors. The young spies actually lived in the equivalent of Hollywood sets replicating the environments of the country each was assigned to infiltrate!

As I've said, I can't help but believe the top Soviet chess players received some very interesting training. There's no denying the results.

Given how few specifics I can find on the program, it seems like something is being hidden.

If you do not believe something is being hidden......

You become a student of Royal's Math.  Lesson 1 will consist of learning which you have learned incorrectly. 1 + 1 is not 2  Take 1 large apple and another large apple ....... do they equal small apples.

Ok lesson 2   1+1 is 11  verified by lessong 1.

Lesson 3  If you have 1 dollar and you owe the 2 dollars. easy sollution.

1 - 2 =  -1  negative 1. How can you have negative dollars have you ever seen a negative dollar they do not print negative dollars!!! 

Lesson 4 give him the dollar and your dept is paid off. 1 dollar - 2 dollars = 0 dollars. As you do not have any more money. Can not pay what you do not have......

Lessone 5 0/0 is undefined    Nothing from nothing is nothing. Idiots. lol.

royalbishop

The Russians just use common sense and not over complicate things. Russians like to tell stories so those kids might not have been to get to much time near a board. They most likely taught them how to focus by drinking during a game. "If the can not beat you when your drunk ......."  They must have used some torture technique to make them focus while they were drunk.

If made a mistake bread and water. Played good game a dog bi.....  lol.  Flawless play a full course meal.

royalbishop

Ouch i think a lot of us would improve real quick if we even played good and got just dog food. I be mad as ......   Your playing to win a game and this Russian is playing to have a good meal.

ipcress12

rb: So far you bring little more than bluster to this discussion.

Try reading a book for a change: "Red Gold: Peak Performance Techniques of the Russian and East German Olympic Victors".

Like it or not, these are fancy techniques and the Russians used them for their athletes. Why not their chess players?

royalbishop
ipcress12 wrote:

rb: So far you bring little more than bluster to this discussion.

Try reading a book for a change: "Red Gold: Peak Performance Techniques of the Russian and East German Olympic Victors".

Like it or not, these are fancy techniques and the Russians used them for their athletes. Why not their chess players?

Oh i have a good source on how the Russians were trained but i just have to believe they kept the best secrets for themselves. And it is pretty obvious how they keep pushing out these top  players. Have to figure they should have fallen off like their Olympic Gynastic teams.

royalbishop

Common they keep hearing that name Bobby Fischer,

Bobby Fischer, Bobby Fischer and he is dead and they still hear it. They most likely tell their students the world things Fisher is a .........  "Russia will show them a ....... they will know true understanding of that word"

Russians are known for telling stories. So i bet for each element of chess they tell these 3 hr long stories and drink till they fall. Laugh if you want but being different you get different results. Plus add in they are playing not only for a better life for themselves but for their family. They must have had lectures from leaders on lessons about being in the corner which they translated to chess. Stories from generals on attacking which they also had to listen to for hours. Poetry might have even been part of thier lessons not the kind we think of like poems on love.

bluejonz

Russian roulette

Ziryab

I understand there were schools, such as at Pioneer clubs.

Does anyone know anything about Sergey Ivashchenko, author of The Manual of Chess Combinations, vols. 1 and 2?

Kowarenai

abused :/

technical_knockout

in motha-rusha, chess plays you:

kgb trainers & siberian gulags for the losers.

Ziryab
technical_knockout wrote:

in motha-rusha, chess plays you:

kgb trainers & siberian gulags for the losers.

 

Something like that, according to Serper: https://www.chess.com/article/view/the-biggest-secret-of-the-soviet-chess-scool