hypnotized to play better chess

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Irontiger
BhomasTrown wrote:

Science !

samir_naganaworkhere
johnallengay wrote:

I'm not sure I've heard of people using hypnosis to learn things before . . . frankly, I'm a bit skeptical that it's effective at all. Most stage shows will have the assistants weeding out a few people who don't respond to hypnosis much. I've heard it said you have to let yourself be hypnotized, that it can't just be forced on you. 

With all that said, I'd suggest that a chess player would want to undergo hypnosis to improve concentration or overcome mental hangups about the game (say, excessive fear of losing or impulsiveness), or even to help them have a better attitude about practicing. Opening memorization is okay, but you'd be better off studying a lot of master games or something to get the ideas behind key positions, rather than trying to spit things out from memory. You don't want to set yourself up to be brought down by one theoretical novelty.

If you have to "let yourself" be hypnotized, how is that any different from "it works only if you believe it does?"  My 2 cents is it's a tool therapists use to get patients to drop their guard by using some pretense that exploits pop culture beliefs.  Dropping one's guard is what's working, not the hypnosis itself.

BhomasTrown
Irontiger wrote:
BhomasTrown wrote:

Science !

Yah. There are some other products offering chess hypnosis success on google, but they don't give a preview. 

http://www.real-hypnosis.com/chessgamehypnosis.html

http://personalhypnosis4u.co.uk/sport-improvement/20-play-better-chess-hypnosishypnotherapy-2-cd-pack.html

http://www.hypnosisdownloads.com/sports-performance/improve-chess

http://www.hypnotictapes.com/transcript/gambling/TS-chess.shtml

http://www.amazon.com/Chess-Master-Hypnosis-Hypnotic-World/dp/B0045V30ZM/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1374865576&sr=8-1&keywords=chess+hypnosis

http://www.amazon.com/Improve-Your-Chess-Game-Subliminal/dp/B00B64W61U/ref=sr_1_3?ie=UTF8&qid=1374865594&sr=8-3&keywords=chess+hypnosis

samir_naganaworkhere

Save your money... instead of self help books and therapy, here's a short explanation of what people will find:

The reason why adults need therapy once in a while is because over time they develop deeply socialized defenses, which although helps the person look themselves in the mirror every day, prevents them from achieving some goals, essentially forming a self-propagating cycle of rationalizations.

Kids lack these same deeply ingrained obstacles simply because they haven't lived long enough to develop them, and so are said to sometimes remind adults of what supposedly "really matters" in life, when they act unhinged by the very obstacles that prevents these adults from say, getting together with an old friend or relative but wont because of some old issues involving egos, losing weight, or whatever other goals that frequently show up in the self-help industry.

Hypnosis is one of those things that gets people to disregard those obstacles for a moment, so long as they believe the hypnosis is doing something, and then the practitioner develops plans to help this individual achieve their goals while in their unguarded purportedly trance state.

It's usually a last ditch effort because other methods of trying to break through a person's defense mechanisms have failed, and so they might try it to see if they can get around these defenses by exploiting some belief they may have.

Hypnosis itself can be said to be a method of misdirection, as illusionists call it, in an attempt to probe your mind about what's really ailing you.

fburton

samir_naganaworkhere, there's probably truth in what you write, but your interpretation of hypnosis doesn't explain all of its effects e.g. on abolishing pain sensation.

Have you ever been hypnotized yourself?

Irontiger
fburton wrote:

samir_naganaworkhere, there's probably truth in what you write, but your interpretation of hypnosis doesn't explain all of its effects e.g. on abolishing pain sensation.

Have you ever been hypnotized yourself?

I have (for show, not for therapy, but I think I can confirm what he said).

First thing is that it exists : that's not just an accomplice on the stage, nor someone who just plays along. It needs some cooperation, but there is a real effect.

Second thing is that there is nothing magical in it. If you want to resist, no matter how good the guy is, he will not manage to do anything. It becomes harder and harder to resist of course when he goes deeper and deeper in the pre-conditioning.

When you are in "trance" (probably not the good word : you are more sleepy than hysteric, you do not see strange things - you just feel really tired) the performer speaks to you subconscious somehow and you happen to obey his orders without deciding to do so - you realize it afterwards, as if your body wanted to do it without your mind taking any active part in the process. You also feel cold, warm, a spicy taste in your mouth etc. at his command, or that you cannot lift your right foot off the ground.

 

It seems very plausible that hypnosis can abolish the pain sensation, which goes through the brain. But it's really not much more than an enhanced placebo effect when it comes to things such as weight loss, cancer curing, changing (permanently) one's mood, etc. See also the well known https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Stanislavski's_system#The_method_of_physical_action (same idea).

So for chess, possibly it makes you win -say- 100 ratings points because you feel confident, but certainly not more - you need study for that. Analogy : if you get hypnotized before taking a test in quantum mechanics, you might score better because you will lose your stress, but if you do not know how to answer a question, it cannot help you.

samir_naganaworkhere

If pain is your point of inquiry, we first must discuss how pain comes about.  Pain can be the result of bodily tension, which can be rooted from emotional issues, or problems which occur as a result of muscular imbalances.  Take for instance the pain that comes from staying in one position too long, or poor physical training methodologies, or extended periods using devices with poor ergonomics.  It's well known that overtraining can lead to bodily breakdown, as well as deficiencies in certain areas, if the regimen itself isn't varied enough, or just having inadequate recovery times, or even ignoring the importance of muscular flexibility and endurance.  I also find through numerous reports that lack of physical activity can lead to general pains and stiffness.  Lastly, there are instances where certain injuries can lead to nagging pains that just won't go away.

Hypnosis can help with (certain) pain symptoms by helping the patient relax, but long term issues can only be mitigated by finding the physiological and emotional root of these pains.  The last thing you need is to be tense if you have nagging pains, and so in that very limited scope, hypnotherapy can help, but with very sharp asterisks!  It is advised that if you suffer from overuse injuries, that you find a physical therapist, as they are more specialized in helping people recover, than some shrink.  The short and lazy way is via drugs, which only mask the pain temporarily, and racks up medical bills in the long term.  For some that is the only option, but that's their choice.

To answer another question, yes, I have been subjected to hypnosis, because I was required to, due to my occupation, which I'm not about to discuss.  I find that much of the reported physiological sensations one feels while undergoing hypnosis is a result of optimized oxygen intake through its deep relaxation methods.  In short, I describe it as an oxygen high with my eyes closed.  There's a reason why cadence is so important with hypnosis, and it's because it manipulates ones' breathing.

As for hypnotic suggestions, the practitioner can only give you a "nudge" to do something you were already inclined to do, while you are already relaxed, undergoing oxygen high, and less guarded.  Much of what you are inclined to do is rooted in your belief systems.  This requires good rapport through long term relationship for it to work, since only then will the practitioner know your quirks, so to speak.  Other ways of establishing quickie rapport is through authority and labels, where an individual comes in with a set of assumptions as to the label's legitimacy.  Scams often prey on the effect of authority and urgency, as we all know.  Hypnosis can't "cure" cancer, but it can modify behaviors by appealing to your beliefs, if you have good rapport with the practitioner.

Still, this is in my opinion, FAR from what popular media has shown hypnosis to be, and it's doubtful the hypnosis itself is what's effective.  It can't for instance create new behaviors that are outside the range of the indivual's range.  One clear example is sexual preference, which is biologically determined.  Some of you are cracking up with my choice of example, but think about it.  No amount of hypnotherapy will ever change whether you prefer girls, guys, or both, unless through some outside coercion.  Simpler day to day changes like body fat percentage, chess performance, etc on the other hand is limited only in reminding someone what helpful behaviors they were already inclined to do when to be blunt, they cut the crap.  When someone is not guarded, they can look at themselves more objectively.

Irontiger
samir_naganaworkhere wrote:

(...)One clear example is sexual preference, which is biologically determined.  Some of you are cracking up with my choice of example, but think about it.  No amount of hypnotherapy will ever change whether you prefer girls, guys, or both, unless through some outside coercion. (...)

*cough cough*

Reference ? Source ? Medical study ? Something ?

fburton

Thank you for your comments, samir_naganaworkhere, which are interesting to me.

Regarding pain, I was thinking more along the lines of how hypnosis can produce a complete anesthetic effect locally. For example, the hypnotic subject can be made to believe - with his/her cooperation, for sure - that having something done to part of the body that would normally be painful and hard to bear turns out, in the trance state (or whatever it is), not to be painful at all and hence trivial to bear. It typically comes as a surprise to the subject that the only sensations felt are pressure, a slight tugging at the flesh, etc. This is because they genuinely are not registering any of the usual pain inputs.

I assume this is the case because that is what I felt myself when I had a needle pushed through the skin of my hand in a way very similar to the clip below by a medical hypnotist (a friend's father). After that, I learned to induce this state myself and repeated the needle experiment with exactly the same result - no pain sensations whatsoever - a very odd feeling when one also feels completely awake at the same time!

Take a look at http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=28vrJ7cn62M (skip past the showmanship and wobbly camerawork to 2:00 if you like).

I have also had my legs immobilized/frozen using hypnotic suggestion. It is also a very strange feeling, because the harder one tries to move the harder it is to do so, or rather, the more it feels fixed in place. Knowing that if I absolutely had to move I probably could doesn't help. It is as if one lower part of the brain is flipping the finger at the higher, conscious part.

samir_naganaworkhere

I just watched the video, and here's my reaction:

The skin has many layers, and so a superficial prick on the epidermus isn't going to hurt all that much. The visual shock regarding punctures and impalements is what's perhaps unbearable to some, and that much is a real effect since it's a survival instinct.

I remember as a child being TERRIFIED about needles, and giving my family doctor hell for it, and so I probably made it more painful as I tensed up while the doc tried his best to inject medicine into a moving target, LOL. As an adult, I'm like okay, it's a cold prick sensation that lasts a split second. Also, consider the classic "bed of nails" demonstration that stunt illusionists like to show once in a while. Visually impressive, it looks massively painful, but when you understand the physics behind it; how the weight is distributed across many points of contact, in effect, minimizing the pressure and penetration of each point, and how applying deep relaxation maximizes skin's flexibility, it becomes more mundane. Almost as visually impressive is acupuncture, and why the one undergoing this procedure isn't screaming in agony, but as you think more into it, again, it's just a superficial prick on the epidermus.

Going back to the Derren Brown demo, observe how the needle is applied laterally across a particular part of the hand with a lot of skin. This is more an example of how the visual aspect is important for the pain sensation to register, in a way that is triggered through visual shock, where abrupt tension tightens the skin, and causes more pain than otherwise would've occurred where needles are concerned. It's important for Brown's participants to be relaxed and adequately "primed" so that the needle is inserted smoothly, and without having the subject scream in shock.  "It's just a dead hand..."  Brown was tugging on the skin to check that the participant's hand wouldn't clench, as much as he was trying to reinforce the idea that it was just a non-feeling object.  Tell someone not to think of an elephant, and it's paradoxically impossible not to think of an elephant.  Not a perfect analogy, but kind of explains how "priming" works.  Whether or not the participant trusts him, that it's safe and is just a dead hand depends on his rapport.  Now, consider if the needle had been inserted vertically, and with enough pressure to penetrate deep into his hand, we'd be having an altogether different discussion about how crazy this person was for thinking he could hypnotize someone into ignoring the fact that their hand had just been impaled!

When I was younger, I had my eyebrow pierced (don't ask why), and I remember clearly how it felt. The guy sat me in front of a mirror like some barber shop, and so I looked away, concentrated on relaxing, and it was over before I knew it. Had I freaked out as the needle was going through, it might've been a totally different experience. It's long been removed, the hole is healed up, but it was still an experience that I won't forget.  The eyebrow, much like that area of the hand used in Brown's demo is mostly loose skin.

samir_naganaworkhere

@irontiger

Ask yourself what it is that triggers an erection, and you'd be hardpressed to find any explanation other than a biological one.  Since sexual preference has become so politicized, it's doubtful any study will convince you otherwise.  To each his own I suppose.  

fburton

With all due respect, samir_naganaworkhere, I think you would not be as dismissive of the phenomenon as you appear to be if you had experienced it yourself first-hand (so to speak). That's why I asked if you had ever been hypnotized. If you get a chance to again, I highly recommend you try the local anesthesia suggestion. The flesh really does feel dead, cold and almost entirely without sensation.

At another demo, for students of physiology, I happened to be one of the subjects called up to demonstrate various measurable effects of hypnosis. (Presumably I was deemed to be susceptible, though I don't remember much about the selection process - I probably got my hands stuck together or something.) Anyway, they tried to measure my oxygen saturation levels and heart rate with one of those oximeter thingies they stick on your finger. That was fine to being with, but in the 'trace state' they were unable to get reliable readings which was suggested to be due to reduced superficial blood flow in my finger. My hand certainly felt the same cold, clammy way it did when 'anesthetised' previously. However, they were able to demonstrate hypnotist-directed effects on heart rate in some of the other subjects. Of course we already know that the mind can influence body function. My point here is that my hypnosis wasn't just playing tricks with my perception; it was also having a somatic effect.

Another experience that I didn't mention, partly to avoid embarrassing myself, involved putting my hand 'to sleep' to show off to friends. (I was in my 20s and still had the 'wisdom' of youth!) I self-induced the 'dead hand' state (I could also do 'dead arm' but the hand was sufficient here) using the trigger phrase that I had established. I then told one of my buddies who was a smoker to stub his cigarette out on the back of my hand. At first he was reluctant to do so and merely held the hot tip of the cigarette close to my skin. As I felt nothing at that point, I told him it was fine and urged him to go ahead. So he did. I still felt nothing and continued to do so until after the "wows" had died down and I restored feeling to my hand. At that point, I could definitely feel pain - of the most unpleasant, burning kind, as you'd expect - but that was several minutes after the stubbing out. I still have the scar to this day, 30 years later, just above the thumb on the back of my right hand. Very foolish of course, but testament to the effectiveness of the pain-blocking effect of hypnosis.

What you say about rapport, trust and priming is undoubtedly true. However, until you have actually experienced something like this yourself, what the person feels (what I felt) can't be explained away simply by reference to skin anatomy. It is entirely possible that the needle could have been inserted vertically, again without pain sensation, but then there would probably have been blood and the whole scene potentially a lot messier. Are you aware that minor invasive surgery has been performed under hypnosis as an alternative to general anesthesia? This certainly involved cutting the skin - a bit more than "just a superficial prick"!

See e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sClE-xm-P8A

Irontiger
samir_naganaworkhere wrote:

@irontiger

Ask yourself what it is that triggers an erection, and you'd be hardpressed to find any explanation other than a biological one. 

It is also cultural. It goes through the brain.

Is it biologically predetermined to find fancy clothes / hairdressing, etc. attractive ? I don't think so. Why would it be different with sexual preferences ? "Not chosen" does not mean "biological".

Anyways, who cares - that was an ill-chosen example, but your original point stands. Back to topic.

 

 

Yes, hypnosis only influentiate on the mind. So what ? It still has tremendous effect on the body.

Some people are convinced that electro-magnetic fields are making them feel bad (I'm not talking about UV-sensitivity which is a real thing). And they do demonstrate real (physical, medical) symptoms. But not a single double-blind study has proven a physiological effect. Some of them buy and wear "anti-wave" gear (metallic clothing or such useless BS like "antimagnetic pills") and walk past radio antennas without having any symptoms.

Recently, the electricity company installed new devices to measure electricity consumption that can communicate via the electric cables what their owner used this month. The base station sends some signal at a  fast frequency (much faster that the network's 50 Hz) and in the households fitted with the new counting device a signal is sent back indicating the consumption this month.

Guess what ? None complained that the fast-frequency signal made them sick. But they complained when the new device was installed (while the central station signal was in place since a year or so). (and again, these people have real symptoms, they are not simulating)

samir_naganaworkhere

@Irontiger

You're losing me there when you say an erection isn't biological and then assert that "it goes through the brain."  Personal choices in clothing and hairstyle have no meaningful relationship with automatic hormonal responses to sexual stimuli, and so I don't understand your connection.  I do have ethics concerns over magic pills, magnetic bands, and the like.  It's important to screen out the pseudosciences to protect the general population from scams, and misinformation, which do societal harm from a macro perspective.  Whether people choose to buy these products you mention, doesn't mean they work the way they think, or even whether it works at all.  Do no harm, and also do what you claim to do, are two very basic tenets we should emphasize here.  Otherwise, it'd all be no different than witchcraft.

You're right about erections being off topic though, so I agree, let's move on.  I warned others it was going to be a point of contention at some point.

@fburton:

I know I have my reservations on the topic of hypnosis, and admittedly, I wasn't one of those deemed susceptible to it, although I invariably went through it.  I initially found that explanations as to why I wasn't susceptible, bordered on pandering to those who were.  I'm naturally skeptical when I am presented something that involves "buttering up" the participants' egos.  They could be right though, in that my focus wasn't on the task intended.  I'll give you one thing:  My mind was on trying to absorb the experience, and so I can't say with asbolute impunity that my participation wasn't compromised if that were the case.

People undergoing invasive surgery while under hypnosis is admittedly rather compelling, thank you for that.  Still, it'd be prudent to have a clear set of contingencies.  Don't want anyone going into sudden shock.  Was Dr Burton conscious the whole time? 

...Ah, the wisdom of youth, I hear you on that lol.  I tried to light out a candle with my fingers once when I was young, but I held on too long even when the fire was out.  I can confirm that the acute burning sensation isn't nearly as ferocious as the burning pain moments after, when skin starts to blister.  It ended just as stupidly as it started, in that I went around the restaurant looking for some soy sauce LOL. 

Irontiger
samir_naganaworkhere wrote:

 It's important to screen out the pseudosciences to protect the general population from scams, and misinformation, which do societal harm from a macro perspective.  Whether people choose to buy these products you mention, doesn't mean they work the way they think, or even whether it works at all.  Do no harm, and also do what you claim to do, are two very basic tenets we should emphasize here.  Otherwise, it'd all be no different than witchcraft.

But the thing is that witchcraft is real ! Not that witch-doctors and stuff have any real power of course, but they can be persuasive, and the placebo/nocebo effects are much stronger that what people imagine.

Hypnosis is usually coming with the fair warning that there is no magic at work and only the brain is influenced, so ethically speaking, it's a better alternative than witch-doctors, for the same kind of efficiency.

fburton
samir_naganaworkhere wrote:

People undergoing invasive surgery while under hypnosis is admittedly rather compelling, thank you for that.  Still, it'd be prudent to have a clear set of contingencies.  Don't want anyone going into sudden shock.  Was Dr Burton conscious the whole time?  

You mean Dr Butler? I don't know, but don't see why not. I guess it depends to some extent by what you mean by "conscious". People are able to talk and answer questions while producing analgesia. However, they're clearly not in a fully receptive and responsive state, because they aren't responding normally to what must be pretty intense pain.

When I felt the burning pain from the aftermath of the cigarette stubbing, I was able to reinduce numbness in my hand which helped a lot.