That was an equal position and Kramnik knew all the plans.
I don't get it Mr. Grischuk
Sort:
I certainly don't understand any of these positions titled players play, much less players like Kramnik, but I do know you can't just decide to play a brilliant attacking game like flicking a switch. If you're facing a peer the position has to allow for it in some way or another. If Grischuk couldn't attack, he couldn't attack.
May 12, 2011
0
#4
Perhaps he's planning to draw all 4 games to try and get Kramnik at the shorter time controls.
ReasonableDoubt wrote:
This is just a reminder that we need another Fischer or another Tal. Someone who doesn't translate roughly equal but dynamic into draw agreed on the spot. Someone who will play a middlegame by straying off the beaten path, not just following theory into a +/= ending that quickly turns into =. It's just frustrating to see these super high level players not making realistic attempts at an advantage, and basically just sitting back and getting a tiny advantage with the hope that their opponent will make a rare mistake in the resulting ending. I'm not saying there aren't attacking players anymore (Shirov, Nakamura, and Topalov come to mind) but at this point in time almost all of the 2700+ players are just breaking out unambitious lines with the idea of going into an ending with a 20-30% chance to win and only a 5% chance to lose. I hope I'm not the only one who is tired of watching the best players in the game concede that their opponent is roughly equal in the position so therefore the game is a draw. With no offense meant to any of the 27-2800s, they're still humans! They still make mistakes, and if people try to win the middlegame by playing their best and maybe taking a few risks along the way, maybe they'll win more games. Instead, what happens is they end up just tossing the game onto the scrapheap because they think there's as much chance for their opponent to win as there is for them.
Maybe because the only top level games I see are from videos, it seems there are still plenty of fighting games (not to mention plenty of mistakes in the endgame).
Todays chess is pretty fighting I think. I mean, it's not like back in the day with Capablanca or Alikhine with 100 repetitions of QGD or slav defenses. Do you really think a Fishcer or Tal like person would push it that far in such a short match? If they really want to push for WC I think it's legitimate to play cautiously. Save the 2+2=5 with only one way out stuff for tournament play :)
Great, let 'em go to blitz. Then we'll see who is really better. None of this "I have memorized every possible position arising from the position, but I need a few minutes per move to remember it accurately". Thinking on the fly...that's sounds like more exciting chess.
Fezzik wrote:
Give Kramnik credit. He completely neutralised Grischuk's QGD. Grischuk is known for his sharp opening play, mostly as Black. Grischuk may not have enough prepared for Kramnik if he spent all his energy wisely preparing for the tournament favorite in the first round.
We'll see what's in store when Kramnik has White.
Btw, HappyFanatic, that idea has definitely been mentioned in a number of places, including chessbase.com.
Yes, strange indeed that Kramnik got "blame" for the draw, when he, after all, was Black. Maybe this highlights that people like me still think romantically, that brilliant play can win a game, rather than only mistakes can lose it. But what does Grischuk have to lose? Why not at least create some imbalance? Surely it is in his interests to wear out the opposition? Or maybe he has a bit too much respect for Kramnik.
The other possibility is as has been mentioned above that he is hoping to take it in blitz. Much as I love playing blitz I would think it very sad if WC challengers were chosen that way.
May 13, 2011
0
#8
Grischuk felt two things: a) he got nothing as White b) Kramnik knows this position much better than him. So why take risks?
I understand that chess fans want to see the games played out, but here a lot is at stake, so the players care more about the final result than about creating another immortal game. Of course, one could introduce Sophia rules and prohibit offering draws before move 30.
On the other hand, it is well-known that Vladimir lacks the stamina to play many games in a row at his usual supreme level. Therefore, Alex could try to play the games out just to tire Vladimir. Anyway, I am not the one to give advice to Grischuk...
With respect to the individual game, I don't really have a problem with a quick draw--you cannot name a single GM who hasn't taken a "GM draw" at some time in his career. And in the history books, Petrosian's 1 win, 9 draw victory over Korchnoi meant the same as Fischer's 6-0 win over Larsen. But what I'm talking about here is Grischuk's lack of ambition with white. Has he played a single white in the candidate's that wasn't a draw in less than 25 moves? If he wants that many off days, why is he playing in the candidates? If he'd played a couple of hard games and then wanted an extra day of rest, I'm all for it--refresh, reload, and get back at it. And as much as I don't like Kamsky's style (he does nothing, but he does it really well), at least he explores subtle possibilities that might lead to an advantage. I have no problem with his first-round draw; both players earned it. And I believe Kramnik earned his draw; he's not obligated (like Tal or Fischer might have felt) to be partially suicidal with black. But I haven't seen any ambition by Grischuk at all, and I'm sure there are other GMs out there who would have given their all in every game for the once-in-a-lifetime chance to compete for the world title. Is he scared? Is he unprepared? Does he think he's that much better in blitz than in OTB? I don't understand people who withdraw in the face of opportunity. Just my two cents.
Natalia_Pogonina wrote:
Grischuk felt two things: a) he got nothing as White b) Kramnik knows this position much better than him. So why take risks?
I understand that chess fans want to see the games played out, but here a lot is at stake, so the players care more about the final result than about creating another immortal game. Of course, one could introduce Sophia rules and prohibit offering draws before move 30.
On the other hand, it is well-known that Vladimir lacks the stamina to play many games in a row at his usual supreme level. Therefore, Alex could try to play the games out just to tire Vladimir. Anyway, I am not the one to give advice to Grischuk...
Very well put and in perspective.
Judging from his very few recent losses in classical chess against Nakamura, Carlsen etc. it seems from the annotations of those games by qualified observers they seem to think that to beat Kramnik you have to wait until Kramnik self-destructs, one comment I read noted that Kramnik is a phenomenal defender and is not likely to be blown away on the board (Anand may disagree...) no, it is more likely that Kramnik will go wrong and lose a game or draw a won game when the position actually favours him at some point. I am not sure of course but it appears that this may be true and backed up with the actual games - as I note that Kramnik has also drawn a few winning games as well in the last few years (what was it two or three games a minor piece up in London and Corus and he drew all of them?).
It may be that Grishchuk is in the same position as Kasparov was when he was young facing Petrosian... risking anything is a very dangerous strategy against such a phenomenal calculator, and as Kramnik himself said - when you are a confident calculator it is easier to defend than to attack, attack needs creativity and intuition and fantasy and courage - defence doesn't - you just calculate.
Listening to him you get the impression chess is so simple... but, alas, no...
dashkee94 "But I haven't seen any ambition by Grischuk at all, and I'm sure there are other GMs out there who would have given their all in every game for the once-in-a-lifetime chance to compete for the world title. Is he scared? Is he unprepared? Does he think he's that much better in blitz than in OTB? I don't understand people who withdraw in the face of opportunity. Just my two cents."
That +1
whyohwhyohwhy wrote:
You didn't originally even expect to take part.
You beat Aronian.
You had White against Kramnik.
Why not throw the kitchen sink at him?
Don't you WANT to win?
I don't get it Mr. Grischuk.
He didn't win against Aronian by throwing the kitchen sink at him, did he?
In the end Gr won by playing blitz. Well I will b going for Gelfand, GO BORIS
Grischuk knew his best shot was in the blitz tiebreak...can't fault him for his match strategy.
"Don't hate the player, hate the game."
May 22, 2011
0
#15
Kingcrusher made a video about this topic
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sbBxxaNY3ss&feature=channel_video_title
You didn't originally even expect to take part.
You beat Aronian.
You had White against Kramnik.
Why not throw the kitchen sink at him?
Don't you WANT to win?
I don't get it Mr. Grischuk.