I finally learned how to study tactics right and finally improved my rating
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lol you seem exasperated with me and I'm not sure why. I wasn't posting the links, someone else was in reply to my comment. I might not be communicating clearly enough, and if that's the case I apologize.
What I'm talking about is the difference between memorization and learning (for lack of a better word). What I mean is that if you look at one single tactic and you visit it over and over again, let's say it's a smother mate. Are you learning to recognize any smother mate in any position by doing a single tactic over and over, or are you just memorizing a very specific position and order of moves? Does that clarify what I'm asking?
It's like the difference between memorizing one piece of piano music by watching someone else's hand movements vs learning how to read music.
Jan 31, 2017
0
#86
Chesslover0_0 wrote:
EscherehcsE wrote:
TRextastic wrote:
How do you go about repeating all of your tactics? Do you just go through your list of recent ones? It would be nice if chess.com offered an option to repeat all of your missed tactics until you get them right on the first turn.
And do you think that by repeating them until you can get them almost instantly is actually teaching you something? It seems more like you're just memorizing an exact position at that point which may or may not show up in a game. Just curious on your thoughts, Chesslover.
Possibly helpful reading:
http://www.danheisman.com/recommended-books.html
(In the above link, just read the short section in "Guide to using Chess Tactics for Students".)
--and--
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627075009/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman04.pdf
--and--
https://web.archive.org/web/20110110041054/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman106.pdf
Trextastic,I don't use the Chess tactics server and I may not be using Chesstempo all that much any more because I believe that staring at a screen too long may ruin your eyes,I currently don't wear glasses,although I imagine it wouldn't be good for someone that wore glasses either.
Any way I was talking about books,basically you take a set of problems and just repeat them until you can get them all in under 15 seconds. Again the goal is to recognize them and not just solve them,there is a difference,that's pretty much it. I mean it's work yes but I don't believe in solving all new problems,especially with all new patterns,you can solve hundreds of these things and not LEARN (that's the recognition) much of anything at all. I've already done that. I mean the goal is to hopefully not only just see but create these tactics in your own games.
I just read your paragraph and you clearly DON'T GET IT???? ............You're not learning here,you want that pick up a book on theory .........RECOGNITION,do you understand,....*sighs* ..........recognition,so you ask me if I'm learning something the answer to your question is YES, I'm a learning a Chess pattern that I may use against your theory and again,you can read my other post,you can solve problems that may take you about a minute or so to do,you didn't recoginize it,it took you a while. I don't understand what you don't about this? If you're posting me links to things about Dan Heisman,then why are you asking me about it,shouldn't you already know then?
Also .........it's not about memorizing a position??? it's about the PATTERN ok,...I'm sorry I'm reading this stuff and I'm like really? .........Learn the idea,the configuration of pieces associated with the idea wash rinse and repeat. I've researched this stuff and clearly you have to which again,begs the question of why are you asking me for?
Sorry for the confusion, that was me (EscherehcsE) posting the Heisman links.
I have absolutely no idea how you think I was assuming anything. I was literally just asking for your opinion? No need to jump down my throat. Please don't comment if you're going to get so offended by me asking a follow up question.
What is going on here?
Hey Urk! Thanks for the comic interlude. Don't know about everyone else but I needed a chuckle. Good to see your ego is working but I would recommend a periodic reality check. You are long overdue!
No worries!! It all makes sense now. Hope you feel better!
Feb 1, 2017
0
#94
That's the first comment I ever deleted.
God, that was terrible.
Thanks for keeping me in line.
God, that was terrible.
Thanks for keeping me in line.
Feb 1, 2017
0
#95
MSteen wrote:
This is why I spent hours cutting apart John Bain's great book "Chess Tactics for Students" and put them on over 400 note cards. I carry a set around with me (say about 30-40) and solve them over and over until I can do them at a glance. Then I grab another set and do the same thing. The problems are simple, but doing them until you get them immediately really helps. And there are over 400, so I'm not likely to just memorize them.
I converted the Bain problems to a pgn file and integrated the problem set into Fred Mellender's free YATT tactics trainer program. It may not be the perfect solution, but it works for me. I don't have to worry about being online to practice tactics. It utilizes spaced repetition. It doesn't time you, so that's either a plus or a minus, depending on how you feel about timed tactics.
https://sites.google.com/site/fredm/Home
May 8, 2019
0
#96
i started doing this on chessable i import tactics there and set repeat after 4 weeks, then i solve as many tactics as possible, after 4 weeks i repeat the same tactics but now i use 2 weeks, i repeat the cycle until i can solve the same tactics in a day, very effective
Oct 15, 2019
0
#97
TRextastic wrote:
How do you go about repeating all of your tactics? Do you just go through your list of recent ones? It would be nice if chess.com offered an option to repeat all of your missed tactics until you get them right on the first turn.
And do you think that by repeating them until you can get them almost instantly is actually teaching you something? It seems more like you're just memorizing an exact position at that point which may or may not show up in a game. Just curious on your thoughts, Chesslover.
I think some of my comments may have gotten erased for some reason, this is a rather old thread so I'm not sure what happened.
Any way I don't know if you're talking to me or the OP (the one who originally posted), you said "Chesslover" so I'll assume you were talking to me.
Trextastic, I think I touched on this before, but to answer your question, repeating problems isn't teaching you much but it's not supposed to teach you anything. The goal of doing these problems over and over and over is to develop "Pattern recognition", in other words to be able to recognize the solutions of these problems at a glance, the solutions that recur are what's known as a "Pattern".
The OP stated that going over the problems that he got wrong is what helped him, in that we agree but in a given set, you should be able to get ALL of the problems at a glance, not just ones that you got wrong. I go over my sets of problems over and over until I get all of them at a glance, not just "the ones I got wrong". Again, the goal is PATTERN RECOGNITION, aka to be able to see a configuration of pieces that you are familiar with at a glace, it should "pop out" at you like the squares that a knight can jump, that's a PATTERN of squares that you know very well.
I think and I don't mean this as a knock to the OP but the problems that he got "right" may have taken him 5 minutes to solve, do you think he RECOGNIZED the solution OR did he merely SOLVE the problem. I'd wager he definitely did the latter of the two, he solved it BUT that doesn't mean that in a real game under time pressure he'll be able to see the solution.
The bottom-line is the repetition of these problems are done to gain pattern recognition and not learn anything, you're not trying to learn anything, you're trying to train your brain to see something instantly. I wonder why they don't just show us these "Patterns" in and of themselves without all of the other pieces on the board, I guess that's too unrealistic though.......
Dec 23, 2020
0
#98
This should be obvious its not. I'm not doing this.
I'm facepalming right now. Live and learn.
Thanks fort this post even if it was years ago.
Hi good day folks totally agree with OP. I play on another chess site and use chess tempo to train I just have an account here to post on the forums.
But it's much more nuanced than that. There's solving/ calculation and visualization ability, then there is pattern recognition of tactics. Solving requires putting aside lines and variations and looking at each of them. Holding them in your memory of lines you want to look deeper and discarding. Therefore, solving is about higher executive decisions, looking at the lines your visualization produced, and then checking certain lines until you are satisfied. Chess tempo set at Standard but not at a certain rating is PERFECT for that. As you solve problems, the problems get more difficult. When you get them wrong it lessens your rating and difficulty so you're always at that "limit" STRETCHING your solving ability. A good rule of thumb is if it takes less than 3 mins and more than 15 mins to solve a puzzle it's not helping you. FM Peter Giannatos said so on a podcast and swears this is how he got to FM level. He COMPLETELY DISDAINS repeating the same set of tactics that take less than 2 mins to solve OVER AND OVER again until they are ingrained. He said he never knew anyone at his level doing that successfully.
Here's my humble and limited take on it. At the lower levels ( below expert/ 2000) the tactics that lose games are 2-3 move tactics and even shorter for the lower levels. Therefore, recognition of these common patterns is key.
However, as you go beyond 2000 the tactics that lose games tend to be "i did not look deep enough into the line" so when a player that level says If i go here instead, he can do this, this and this, which is still good for me ( evaluation) but what if he can do something other than those, is there anything in that line like a hidden resource he can pull off that will make things bad for me?
As you can see, at that level, one hidden resource could completely change the evaluation of the line and result in loss of the game. So their solving and calculation better be on point.
However, for below experts ( and definitely shorter time controls) it's good enough to play a threatening line that is beyond the ability of the opponent to solve and look for the hidden resource. So, if you recognize all the basic patterns and the opponent overlooked one, you will likely win. The opponent won't have the solving ability to find the perfect defense. And more likely, won't have the time to solve for the perfect defense.
So what I think is the higher up you go, the less important repeating the same tactics is and the more important it becomes to solve each line accurately with correct evaluation at the end of the line.
That being said, the way you used chess tempo did not suit your purposes. It definitely would have suited you to repeat the same set over and over ( it's also easier and more rewarding)
SOLVING IS TOUGH! as Giannatos says " It Sucks" but at the longer time controls and at the expert and higher level, it's 99 percent solving.
At the lower levels and at shorter time controls, it's 99 percent practical patterns you could do. You wouldn't have time to solve every line. You would choose lines that look safe for you but dangerous for the opponent.
Both skills are super important. I'm sure Magnus Carlsen with his superior pattern recognition spends less time looking at lines that go nowhere.
Many books can be used for the practical patterns
Many people have succeeded on chess tempo as the people there are more likely to be scholastic teams playing CLASSICAL CHESS. Well in this format as one could imagine, since the time available is a lot more, not seeing variations deeply enough could beat you. As opposed to blitz chess, You could always filter "problems I got wrong" and redo the problems again and then filter "problems I got right at least once" to do tactics you have gotten wrong once.
For basic pattern recognition I have found tactics ninja by and Mating Matador by chess mood the best introduction to ALL patterns. For pattern ingraining I have found benedictine's chess patterns to be peerless. I have all the other books Bain, Masseti and Messa Polgars chess tactics for champions and those are OK.
How do you go about repeating all of your tactics? Do you just go through your list of recent ones? It would be nice if chess.com offered an option to repeat all of your missed tactics until you get them right on the first turn.
And do you think that by repeating them until you can get them almost instantly is actually teaching you something? It seems more like you're just memorizing an exact position at that point which may or may not show up in a game. Just curious on your thoughts, Chesslover.
Possibly helpful reading:
http://www.danheisman.com/recommended-books.html
(In the above link, just read the short section in "Guide to using Chess Tactics for Students".)
--and--
https://web.archive.org/web/20140627075009/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman04.pdf
--and--
https://web.archive.org/web/20110110041054/http://www.chesscafe.com/text/heisman106.pdf