I'm convinced now - studying too many tactics makes me worse

Sort:
petrikeckman

Someone who literally follow the tactics can go horribly messed up, if the opponent does not follow any tactics. ;)

mcmodern
petrikeckman wrote:

Someone who literally follow the tactics can go horribly messed up, if the opponent does not follow any tactics. ;)

what does that mean? You need tactics during every step of a chess game, from seeing threats to finding opponent's weaknesses. Even during your strategic manuvering, you still need tactics.

zborg

1)  Play over your losses, (slowly), and locate your mistakes.

2)  Start playing Game in 10/5 and Game in 15/5.  The increment is very important for improving your playing strength.

3)  Give up on "long posts" in this forum thread.  It's an utter waste of time.  This same thread exists in hundreds of different forms on this site.  All are BORING and time wasting.

4)  If you can afford it, Buy some decent Chess BOOKS to study, or hire a coach.


End of Story.

petrikeckman
mcmodern wrote:
petrikeckman wrote:

Someone who literally follow the tactics can go horribly messed up, if the opponent does not follow any tactics. ;)

what does that mean? You need tactics during every step of a chess game, from seeing threats to finding opponent's weaknesses. Even during your strategic manuvering, you still need tactics.

";)" means, do not take me literally and serious.  Wink It is difficult me explain better, english is not my language, but if someone suppose that the opponent too obey some tactic, and he/she does not, then the game could goes to a totally new unpredictable ways where is room for the whole new tactics, never anyone heard before...  

AIM-AceMove

This is my chess story/vision it may not be true for anyone so no offense and i im not good explaining things in language that i did not take any lessons learning lol:

Not playing long time controls will not stop you improving. But you will have to figure out for yourself how to benefit from it. Playing any time controls even only bullet will improve you. It did it for me. Maybe not for everybody. But at some point, don't know if you reached it for yourself but yes you have to stop and play longer time controls in order to go next level.

It wont improve your calculation that you need in classic time control (and is very hard for beginner  to start playing 60 min games, becouse he can't calculate and does not know  much is pointless) but other things will imrpove you. Bullet and blitz helps you and force you for seconds to make a decision. For seconds to see whole board and make a move that will not hang a piece, but have to imrpove current position. Becouse of the short time control you are playing so much games, you see so much openings, so much endgames, you build patterns. I learned so much just becouse of that. Now i am 1900 bullet here (2000+ lichess) 1800 blitz (3min) without knowing much openings or  much endgames (i am learning them now, i have so much room for improving, soon will go above 2000 here.) Then going here tactic trainer and solving problems (problems are not just puzzles, but thematic etc. they are not just find mate in 5..) You will learn correct moves, correct patterns. I can say for sure that TT here improved my skills (i was 2030 with 2500+ problems but i reset it couple of days ago and already i solve hundreds)

 That imrpoves you visual board awerenes. Being able you see fresh position and calculate and evalate what is going on and what you have to do absolutely 110% will improve you.

I started to play chess again 2y ago (before 10y ago i was  very casual basic stuff) just becouse of the bullet. I improved a lot. Become stronger and stronger in bullet. But that does not improved my rapid play for example. But i dont hang piece anymore. Then started to play blitz. This is whole new world. I improved more and more. Now i start to play rapid and soon will go classic and over the board tours.

So my advice is just as other people saying. First stop hanging pieces. If you dont fix that, no matter what you study or learn, this will damage your whole chess.

Also very importhan. What improved me mostly was observing stronger players. I spent thousands++ of hours in last 1-2 years only watching streams and videos of bullet/blitz games. Don't wantch GM/IM classic master games. You will not understand anything. But watch KingsCrusher or John bartholomew youtube, Chess-Network (that is basicly free coaching for everybody, they explaing their tought process moves, analyzing etc.) Also 1 hour a day for chess is not enough. If you want to improve spent more hours/day for chess. Don't forget having fun and enjoy.  Get premium here for Tactics trainer unlimited, best teaching videos on the planet, best chess mentor courses, opening explorer and more. Or at least watch as i do every single youtube video that explains something. Books, not many , just few , are enough if they are correct ones for you.

Cazpivarov

My rating on tactics in lichess is 2114. Here in this chess.com in 1600, because of the time. Tactic trainer Problems with 30 seconds to answer are complicated. Today I have played little, I prefer to read books, improve my understanding of the game.

hhnngg1

You know, I've tried that 'study anything' approach. You'd be surprised at how many endgame theoretical problems I've done over the past few years, as well as other problem books, with nary a bump in my rating for most of it. 

 

At least for me, I really think that knowledge itself is not the main limiter from gaining ELO points. I think it's more getting used to correct thought process to USE the knowledge I have, in a time-efficient way. At least that's the only real explanation I have for why I can swing from 1200 level playto 1470 level play over a matter of a month. 

 

I do need to play longer games, yes, but I given my time constraints, I'm finding that reviewing full annotated games is having a pretty good positive effect on the thinking process - at least far better than solving tactics problems did.

K_Brown

Find higher rated opponents who are willing to talk about their thought processes during the game. 

Harvey_Wallbanger

   I typically play 25 or more tactical puzzles per day...here and at tempo. It is a fun way to fill in 10 minutes here and 15 minutes there while waiting in the doctor's office or whatever.

   One of my frustrations is that even if you have a very good or excellent move it is wrong if you don't have the specified, exactly perfect moves.

   Also, for those players who think chess is all about pattern recognition, good luck. Unless you have a photographic memory, there are a mind-boggling number of permutations and combinations.

   My primary way of playing is by calculation. I recognize many "patterns", but usually calculate. This "eats up the clock". Often, I get the right combination in 10 seconds when the norm is 50. Other times, I may need 5 minutes to get the answer. With a timed puzzle, that's not going to be good. Right answer, but too slow is as bad as a wrong answer. That gets a bit frustrating. Smile

   Too, in real chess play you've got to set things up for a tactic (unless the opponent is blundering)...they don't just fall in your lap.

hhnngg1

That's exactly the point - you can be far stronger than your rating in tactical ability, but if you lack the positional knowledge to steer toward those tactics, and aren't playing a blundering opponent, you'll have very few tactics to execute.

Even at the lowly 1200 level, in 5-min blitz, there are plenty of players who against similar-rated opposition (meaning not positional/opening experts), make no losing blunders throughout the entire game, meaning not even losing a single pawn to a missed tactic. 

 

These same players look like tactical disasters against a stronger player who creates all sorts of positional threats to highly pressurize their position, but the final tactic is the easy part - it's the setup that's the crucial phase. 

 

You def can't just make random moves and just wait for tactical blunders and expect to win the majority of your games even at 1100 level in 5-min blitz. 

 

And for me, I definitely do NOT win significantly more games at 1400 than at 1200 due to better tactics. If anything, the tactical shots required when I'm playing @ 1400 level are super simple that even a 1000 level player could get them, whereas if I'm playing at 1200,I'm usually resorting to some bizarre cheapo yet often surprisingly complicated swindle tactic to win games. It's all about the setup once you stop dropping pieces regularly.

Harvey_Wallbanger

   The bottom line is that chess causes vexation and frustration. Why we put up with it makes no sense. Probably for the same reason we put up with women. (Just joking...Smile)

SpiritoftheVictory
Harvey_Wallbanger wrote:

   The bottom line is that chess causes vexation and frustration. Why we put up with it makes no sense. Probably for the same reason we put up with women. (Just joking...)

I'd take putting up with chess over putting up with women any day. Maybe that's why my relationships don't last very long. But hey, I like it that way! Cool

Harvey_Wallbanger

   Interesting. In my case...married 50 years. I like it that way!

SpiritoftheVictory
Harvey_Wallbanger wrote:

   Interesting. In my case...married 50 years. I like it that way!

Good for you! May you be blessed with many more years of successful marriage.

Harvey_Wallbanger

Thanks. Smile

Harvey_Wallbanger

   As far as the OP saying that doing tactical puzzles is detrimental, a thought just came to mind.

   The OP plays a lot of bullet and blitz. These speed games do not allow much time to think. Perhaps the process of doing puzzles, which requires thinking time, may slow the speed reflexes?

   Bullet especially...move something quickly or die. Thinking is not an option.

hhnngg1
Harvey_Wallbanger wrote:

   As far as the OP saying that doing tactical puzzles is detrimental, a thought just came to mind.

   The OP plays a lot of bullet and blitz. These speed games do not allow much time to think. Perhaps the process of doing puzzles, which requires thinking time, may slow the speed reflexes?

   Bullet especially...move something quickly or die. Thinking is not an option.

 

I thought about that, but I don't think it's true at all. After all, I do both quick tactics as well as deep tactics (that are way too hard for me but good calculation practice), and when I'm in my losing streak, it's not like I'm losing in time on every game in potentially winning positions.

 

What I definitely notice in retrospect is that with too much tactics practice, I find myself thinking incorrectly about chess strategy even in simple obvious positions where there's no tactic, but a pretty obvious positional move should be made. Furthermore, with all that tactics study, I'm constantly scanning for that 'one-shot-kill', which not only gets tiring on every move, but also is totally unrealistic, since without a positional setup, that won't happen unless your opponent blunders (those were the only games I was winning.) 

 

By going through the annotated games, I think I practice a more correct way of thinking about chess, and even if I don't make the absolute best tacatical kill when one comes up, I usually make a 'good enough' move in that position, but make much better overall moves in the 95% of other moves that aren't a clear tactical win.

AIM-AceMove

Scan for tactics in tactic trainer. In a real game i don't do it. Or should i? They just pop out sometimes. It is rare after engine analyze to show tactic that i missed, usually they are pretty hard for me. But i am rated 1900+ tactic rating chesscom which is well above average. Maybe the reason i dont look for tactics in real game is becouse i avoid complex positions. Maybe i should not? My game strategy is pretty weird. If i am good at tactics i should play sharp lines right? But i don't. I just experiment with chess and trying to have fun like playing 1.d4 which leads to positional game with less tactic, but i then sac a pawn to confuse opponent and to make it sharp.. I just enjoy wierd positions. Is it very weird or creative? Maybe i should play e4 and with black c5 more. I havent found yet my style of play and where i am strong, havent explore much openings neither, yet to be seen. And my thought process is chaotic. If i go here and here, what about this with that, no no go back here, or maybe there with that, its a mess just like my life. I have a lot of things to fix in my play. Or maybe i am a talent being above average with no study while many players stuck at 1200-1400 while learning so much and still no improving..

Roberta-Baggio

too much of a good thing is bad for you. it's like when you breathe in too much air and you being floating off into space.

Bishop_g5

No way. It make no sense for someone to study tactics and become worst, unless he don't understand why! Every tactical solution besides the final move has an explanation. If you don't find why it's like you never solved the position and maybe this is the reason why solving tactics don't help you. Some times we find the solution from positional instinct or a simple calculation but if we study the board more detailed then we understand that it's not so simple.