Is chess memory born or built?

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BlackaKhan

It is very common for players rated above 2000 (FIDE or USCF) to be able to memorize positions and moves well enough to play blindfolded, and to remember every move of a game they played recently or significant games they played years ago.  That ability seems to be an unofficial requirement to reach the IM level or above.

Is that something they naturally were able to do from a young age, like people with a photographic memory who can easily remember every detail of a picture, or is it something they developed over a long time through thousands of hours of studying and playing?

MaetsNori

No human on earth is born with "chess memory".

It comes from years and years of extensive playing, studying, and learning.

BlackaKhan

Well of course nobody is born with chess memory per se, but I was wondering if they were born with extraordinary spatial memory and visualization ability which makes it easy for them to recall and visualize chess positions and moves -- a natural ability which became evident in the first few weeks or months after they started playing chess.

Do you (IronSteam1) have the ability to play blindfolded and recall the moves of games you've played recently? How many years of playing and studying chess did it take until you were able to do that?

PlayByDay

Pretty sure memory of chess "experts" have been tested in many studies before and most of the time they have extreme memory when remembering valid or possible chess positions, somewhat better with random or invalid positions and almost no difference when other symbols than chess pieces was used.

So either they were born with specific chess memory, and thank god they were born after chess was invented, or it as a question of chunking specific information and training your memory from analyzing chess games in your head (especially when considering possible moves).

blueemu

A study was made comparing Masters to Munchkins across a wide range of different positions.

Both Masters and Munchkins were given a quick look at a position, then asked to reconstruct it on a different board. The general trend was that whenever a position made sense, the Master was far better than the Munchkin at remembering where everything was. If the Master misplaced some men, it was almost always a whole group of Pawns and pieces that were shifted as a unit.

When the positions were just random nonsense, without any logical structure, the Munchkins were nearly as good (or as bad) as the Masters at reconstructing them.

My conclusion:

Chess memory is a function of the player's understanding of the logical structure of the position, NOT just a "photographic memory" trick. It is an ability that requires training and experience.

llama36
BlackaKhan wrote:

Is that something they naturally were able to do . . . or is it something they developed through thousands of hours

Thousands of hours.

llama36
blueemu wrote:

A study was made comparing Masters to Munchkins across a wide range of different positions.

Both Masters and Munchkins were given a quick look at a position, then asked to reconstruct it on a different board. The general trend was that whenever a position made sense, the Master was far better than the Munchkin at remembering where everything was. If the Master misplaced some men, it was almost always a whole group of Pawns and pieces that were shifted as a unit.

When the positions were just random nonsense, without any logical structure, the Munchkins were nearly as good (or as bad) as the Masters at reconstructing them.

My conclusion:

Chess memory is a function of the player's understanding of the logical structure of the position, NOT just a "photographic memory" trick. It is an ability that requires training and experience.

Yeah, and in my experience playing blindfold or remembering games after I played them (and watching others do it, and even watching Carlsen on youtube) is it's very difficult / impossible when the moves make no sense.

People say it's amazing to remember a game years later, but it's the same as remembering a movie you watched years later... it's not hard if the moves tell a story.

OranegJuice
TheNameofNames wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

For 99.999% of people, chess memory is built. And intelligence is not predetermined.

It is predetermined thats why you can tell intelligence by looking at a person 

You can? 

idilis
OranegJuice wrote:
TheNameofNames wrote:
Optimissed wrote:

For 99.999% of people, chess memory is built. And intelligence is not predetermined.

It is predetermined thats why you can tell intelligence by looking at a person 

You can? 

Only he can. He's the chosen one

IsraeliGal

When Magnus Carlsen was a child he memorised the capital city of every single country on the planet. 

"Chess memory" isn't a thing. being born with a gift for memory in general, whether it be visual memorisation, spatial memorisation or otherwise is what helps chess players like Magnus or Hikaru to get to the top. 

Every sport or activity that you want to perform at the highest level requires some sort of talent that you're born with. if you're not born with it you just can't be as competitive. For example when I'm analysing a position, I cant visualise the board past 5 moves, I just cant make a visual picture in my head, its very difficult for me, and if i try to analyse a long line, i'll often make a blunder because i'll forget where a certain piece is. 

This is just how it is, i know everyone likes to believe everything can be achieved through hard work, but thats not true. Many sports and activities, i'd say almost all, require some sort of talent or skill that you're born with. 

Terminator-T800

 it comes down to what the mother eats while she is carrying the baby. & How long mother allows baby to stay on the breast.  my mother beat me off after only a few weeks & fed me that sma powder crap instead ,Cause I use to latch on & not let go.   If only I took it easy I could have been a GM