Is the USCF primarily for Children ?

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pt22064

By "professionally," I mean well enough to earn a living playing chess.  That really means GM level.  Indeed, many GMs can barely make a living solely from chess.  I think that most (but not all) reasonably intelligent people can, with sufficient effort and study, get to about 2000, but it's very difficult to advance beyond that unless one is very talented and also extremely diligent (and has access to the right teachers/coaches). 

Many kids plateau below 2000 because they lack the time, dedication or coaching resources to get higher.  Moreover, many kids lose interest in chess either when progressing further becomes too much work or when they develop other interests that have greater priority than chess. 

There is absolutely nothing wrong with that.  Millions of kids learn music and how to play an instrument.  Some quit when they get to junior high school, but some continue playing in their hgih school band or orchestra.  A few even continue to play in college, but only a very small percentage end up as professional musicians.  This does not mean that scholastic music programs are a failure or that we should stop teaching music to young children.

Ziryab
woton wrote:

 The USCF caters to the kids because they constitute the bulk of their membership.

As a youth chess coach, I find it extremely difficult to think of a single tangible action that the USCF has taken that benefits youth players. On the other hand, the income generated from their membership fees keeps the organization afloat.

If the USCF were successful in promoting youth chess, we would not see the largest numbers of young players in states where scholastic tournaments are not USCF rated. Most years, the Washington State Elementary Chess Championship dwarfs all other youth events except nationals. A small percentage of these students are USCF members. 

woton

Ziryab

From a practical point of view, the USCF is an umbrella organization that provides administrative services to chess players.  The bulk of the work is done at the local level.

If it weren't for the fact that most players want a national rating, the USCF probably wouldn't exist.

Your comment about the Washington State Elementary Chess Championship is interesting.  I believe that I once read about the players in the State of Washington belonging to an organization that was not affiliated with the USCF.

DrinkingLikeTal

The people who organize tournaments at a local level focus on children because these are the same people who want to sell their coaching services.  Kids are where the money is at.  I know of no adults who have paid for coaching for themselves.  It's always some kids parents paying for the weekly checkmate with two rooks canned lesson.

Personally I don't like hanging out around kids for a weekend.  If even they're well behaved there's always one kid who starts to cry and drags out a completely lost position, or the kid who beats you and laughs, or just the kid who can't stop sniffling and is just annoying.  Playing chess with kids just isn't how I want to spend my time.  I prefer the company of adults when it comes to chess tournaments.

zborg

Played in a local tourney over the weekend.  The Under 1700 section had 3 adults out of 20 entrants.

The parents for a number of these "kids" were inputing their games into databases and running engines for analysis in the skittles room.

My opponents' average age was about 10 years old.  Based on their level of play, (and their lightening moves during endgame time scrambles), I would estimate that many of them were "under-rated" about 300-500 points USCF.

The TD had to intervene loudly (only once) to make them stop playing Team Foosh Ball in the playing hall.

I took to lying down and resting between rounds.  If only to recoup my sanity.  Laughing

Final point -- most had "unpronounceable names" from South and East Asia.  You can thank former WCC Vishy Anand for that one.   

woton

DrinkingLikeTal

Seventy five per cent of USCF members are rated under 1400, and the bulk of these players are juniors.  The organizers need participation from this group in order to pay the bills.

I imagine that it is posssible to hold "adults only" tournaments, but how many adults would be willing to pay the resulting higher entry fees?

Ziryab
woton wrote:

Ziryab

From a practical point of view, the USCF is an umbrella organization that provides administrative services to chess players.  The bulk of the work is done at the local level.

If it weren't for the fact that most players want a national rating, the USCF probably wouldn't exist.

Your comment about the Washington State Elementary Chess Championship is interesting.  I believe that I once read about the players in the State of Washington belonging to an organization that was not affiliated with the USCF.

When I started coaching chess, there were more services to youth players, including a magazine that was well-designed.

 

There is no organizational membership required for scholastic chess in Washington. There is a rating system that is used in Washington, Oregon, and some Idaho events. http://www.ratingsnw.com/

The Washington Chess Federation, a USCF affliate, organizes several scholastic tournaments every year. These often have USCF and non-USCF sections.

The WCF does not organize or supervise the state elementary, nor the state middle school, nor high school. There is a Washington High School Chess Association that organizes the state HS competition. The state elementary has a policy board and the state MS has been growing more closely associated with the state elementary. I was the head TD of the combined events this past spring. We had 994 players. The MS championship section required USCF membership and was rated by both the NWSRS and USCF.

There is no requirement for individual membership in any organization for any level of youth chess in Washington.

The WCF founded the newspaper that grew into Northwest Chess Magazine, an award winning regional publication that now serves the Oregon and Idaho Chess Federations, all USCF affiliates.

Naturally, strong youth players are encouraged to join the USCF in order to play in adult events.

I suspect that the large number of strong youth events that do not require USCF membership helps keep the casual players without proper manners away from adult events in my state.

The USCF is a mess. It does not serve well as an ambassador for chess. It does not successfully promote chess in US culture nor in education. The magazine is barely worth the paper it is printed upon. The membership fees are far more than necessary to maintain a rating system.

But, the USCF is a FIDE affliate. It's existence makes it possible for our top players to compete internationally. 

bigpoison

Unfortunately, the sniffling kid is, often, 50.

SilentKnighte5

Kids are terrible.  Helicopter parents are worse.  I selectively choose clubs and tournaments that cater to adults.  High-school aged kids are fine.  8 year olds are not.

NativeChessMinerals
Ziryab wrote:

I run youth tournaments and do not tolerate running, bor players crowding around games still in progress.

Parents are not permitted in the playing room unless they are helping as judges. Then, they must stay away from their own children.

In USCF open events that I have played in, children are welcome and good behavior is expected. Helicopter parents will be warned, and then excluded from the playing room if their behavior persists. 

Good TDs aren't pushovers. They enforce the rules, and if you don't like it soon enough they'll kindly point you towards the nearest exit. This job isn't for everyone. I wouldn't enjoy it. And as far as I know most make no money for their effort.

You sound like a good one. The TD in the OP doesn't sound like a good director. Sure the parents have some responsibility, but I blame the TD / organizers for letting things get that out of hand.

Thomas9400

I can assure you that not all children are like these brats, i think what the USCF needs is a good case of artificial selection hehe

DrinkingLikeTal

Not all children are brats but a lot of them are.

JMB2010

The high rated ones tend to be more well-mannered. ;)

Thomas9400
JMB2010 wrote:

The high rated ones tend to be more well-mannered. ;)

 will have to disagree, forgive me titleship i am but a mere mortal for the chess world but just cuase we are lower rated does not make us more of...brats for a lack of a better term.

JMB2010

I'm not saying that most low-rated kids are brats, but I do think that most high-rated kids aren't.

N0S0UPF0RY0U

A couple of years ago I was playing in a Friday night quick chess tournament at the Dallas Chess Club that had a mix of players all the way from GM's (probably due to the University of Dallas' chess program) to kids.  They crammed us all into a small upstairs room while the TD stayed in his office on the lower floor.  I was playing a kid and he was well behaved but there were kids on the boards on either side of us, and they engaged in intentional misconduct, synchronized coughing actually -- one would cough, the other would cough, one would cough, the other would cough.  Their behavior and the conditions in general and the absence of the TD from the main playing area in a tourney with GM's in it was unacceptable, and I withdrew and told the TD I'd never play in another tournament there (I may reneg on that threat next year, but only after 2 or 3 years passed).

Previously I'd played in 3 of their FIDE tournaments I think, and probably played about a half-dozen kids overall, and every single one of them engaged in unacceptable behavior at the board, such as clicking pens over and over or twirling their pencil and dropping it over and over.  I started playing in OTB tournaments when I was 12 and never did anything like this, but now I see it so much I almost think it is intentional.

Most recently I had this happen to me last month, where I had to ask the little brat twice to not click his pen over and over or whatever he was doing.  He was actualy an A-player and I had the satisfaction as a B-player of beating him, but in the next round he was at the table next to me doing it all over again, but this time he lied and said he hadn't been doing anything.  His opponent went and got the TD and the eventual solution was to move the game away to a table further away from me, but I got a definite vibe from the TD that I was somehow viewed as the bad guy.  Anyway it was my first OTB tournament in a couple of years, and in the meantime I've assembled a kit for my next OTB tournament next month, and it includes earplugs.

TurboFish

Here is a very relevant letter from the November 2015 issue of Chess Life.

http://georgiachessnews.com/2015/10/05/tournament-etiquette-for-kids-and-their-parents/

Squishey

Old people need to learn to chill. People will grow and mature. Just admire the springtime of youth, because you are the dying leaves that will nourish them.

takeoffeh

I think Mr. Menser's letter is a caracature. Perhaps he grew tired of having his complaints ignored and for that he has my sympathy, but I don't think he's helping his case by fabricating this scenario from scholastic hell. I'm also tired of hearing old white men refer to people who complain (justifiably or not) about white privilege, racists. Reacting to racism is not racism. Racism is when you think your race is superior to another.

TheOldReb

There is no reason old people , or middleaged people , or any people should just chill and tolerate disturbing behavior at a chess tournament . People who are causing disturbances shouldnt be allowed to play , problem solved .