Judit Polgar achievements compared to women in other sports.

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gingerninja2003

Judit polgar not only has the legacy as the greatest female chess player of all time but also as a staple elite player. She broke Fischer's record as the youngest grandmaster ever which Fischer held for over 30 years. She also holds the record as the youngest ever player to get into the top 100 and she boasts a positive score against some elite players. Most notably Alexey Shirov, Gata Kamsky, Valery Salov, Alexander Grischuk, Nigel short and more. 

In other words, her achievements aren't amazing just because she's female; but because they're exceptional for anyone regardless of gender. If she was male she would still be remembered (although admittedly not as much) for the aforementioned things. 

This got me thinking, has any other female in a sport or competitive activity where women can compete with men competed at the elite level like polgar? There have been many great achievements by women in sport against men (Fallon Sherrock immediately comes to mind); but I can't think of anyone who has been an elite player. 

My other thought is that why doesn't Judit get more public recognition? Surely her story could inspire women and girls to not only try and compete with men in sports where female-male competition is allowed/fair to not just become a good player but a member of the elite, a tournament winner and possibly even world champion.

TL;DR Judit has achieved alot in chess. Why doesn't she get more public recognition and have any other women competed at the elite of a sport that I haven't heard of?   

llama36
gingerninja2003 wrote:

In other words, her achievements aren't amazing just because she's female; but because they're exceptional for anyone regardless of gender.

They're exceptional, sure, but compared to the best chess players her achievements aren't very good.

 

gingerninja2003 wrote:

If she was male she would still be remembered

Remembered by who? For what?

The record for youngest GM has probably been broken 10 times since Judit. Can you name even one of these players? (The only one I know is Karjakin).

In the same time period as Judit there was a player named Michal Krasenkow who was briefly a top 10 player who had an aggressive style (like Judit) and who won many "best game" awards... but I've never heard of him. I assume 99% of tournament players haven't heard of him either. Meanwhile Judit is even known by non-players or casual players who have never even been to a tournament.

llama36

I'm fine with recognizing women, and recognizing inequality, and I'm for getting more female players to play, but let's be serious... if she were male no one would care about her or remember her name. That's just how it is.

gingerninja2003
nMsALpg wrote:

I'm fine with recognizing women, and recognizing inequality, and I'm for getting more female players to play, but let's be serious... if she were male no one would care about her or remember her name. That's just how it is.

I did mention that she wouldn't be remembered as much if she was male. the average chess player probably would only vaguely recognise the name but anyone who has an interest in chess history would know who she is. Particularly as a chess prodigy and possibly maybe a Wei Yi like player in the sense that they don't reach their full potential (being world number 55 at 12 years old and 'only' getting to world number 8 could be seen as a disappointment).  

I think you miss the point of the post. No other woman in any other sport where females can compete with males has been a staple elite player. So why doesn't Judit Polgar get more public recognition for possibly being the only woman in the history of humanity to become a genuine top 10 in their chosen competitive field. Something that other absolutely brilliant people have tried and failed to do. And if such a woman does exist. Why doesn't the average person know who they are also?

BuckShot900

Let's remember also that her father and his "experiment" was very controversial and that attracted the media and other people. Judit for me is a great player, I really like her, as well as her sisters who were fantastic as well.

lfPatriotGames
gingerninja2003 wrote:
nMsALpg wrote:

I'm fine with recognizing women, and recognizing inequality, and I'm for getting more female players to play, but let's be serious... if she were male no one would care about her or remember her name. That's just how it is.

I did mention that she wouldn't be remembered as much if she was male. the average chess player probably would only vaguely recognise the name but anyone who has an interest in chess history would know who she is. Particularly as a chess prodigy and possibly maybe a Wei Yi like player in the sense that they don't reach their full potential (being world number 55 at 12 years old and 'only' getting to world number 8 could be seen as a disappointment).  

I think you miss the point of the post. No other woman in any other sport where females can compete with males has been a staple elite player. So why doesn't Judit Polgar get more public recognition for possibly being the only woman in the history of humanity to become a genuine top 10 in their chosen competitive field. Something that other absolutely brilliant people have tried and failed to do. And if such a woman does exist. Why doesn't the average person know who they are also?

For two glaringly obvious reasons.

1.Because it's chess. 

2. Which is not a sport. 

The "average person" has no clue about who is or is not a good chess player, let alone if they are male or female. 

mpaetz

     Danica Patrick was IndyCar series rookie of the year in 2005, won the Indy Japan race in 2008, finished fifth in the 2009 IndyCar series standings, is one of only 14 people in the long history of auto racing to take the lead in both the Indianapolis 500 and the Daytona 500. Not quite as impressive as Judit's accomplishments, but auto racing is a lot more physical than chess.

     A better comparison is Helen Sobel Smith, American Contract Bridge Hall-of-Famer, winner of 35 different North American bridge championships, member of the US team at the Bermuda Bowl (world championships), longtime partner (and probably better player) of Charles Goren, inventor of many hand evaluation and bidding system techniques, and widely regarded as on of the world's best (legendary champion, innovator, writer and administrator Edgar Kaplan called her THE best) players in the world.

Kowarenai

yeah she is just a undisputed legend, the female magnus if you consider it that way

Kotshmot
gingerninja2003 wrote:

Judit polgar not only has the legacy as the greatest female chess player of all time but also as a staple elite player. She broke Fischer's record as the youngest grandmaster ever which Fischer held for over 30 years. She also holds the record as the youngest ever player to get into the top 100 and she boasts a positive score against some elite players. Most notably Alexey Shirov, Gata Kamsky, Valery Salov, Alexander Grischuk, Nigel short and more. 

In other words, her achievements aren't amazing just because she's female; but because they're exceptional for anyone regardless of gender. If she was male she would still be remembered (although admittedly not as much) for the aforementioned things. 

This got me thinking, has any other female in a sport or competitive activity where women can compete with men competed at the elite level like polgar? There have been many great achievements by women in sport against men (Fallon Sherrock immediately comes to mind); but I can't think of anyone who has been an elite player. 

My other thought is that why doesn't Judit get more public recognition? Surely her story could inspire women and girls to not only try and compete with men in sports where female-male competition is allowed/fair to not just become a good player but a member of the elite, a tournament winner and possibly even world champion.

TL;DR Judit has achieved alot in chess. Why doesn't she get more public recognition and have any other women competed at the elite of a sport that I haven't heard of?   

"This got me thinking, has any other female in a sport or competitive activity"

Most of the competitive activities are physical where males have more genetic edge, which is why chess achievements cant really be compared to them. 

gingerninja2003
theswooze wrote:

@gingerninja2003: If I provided you a list of 100 random names that included the names of 10 chess players who were once ranked 8th or better in the world, do you honestly believe you could identify all of the chess players?  

I probably would be able to. (assuming there were no trick names like Andrey Sokolov as opposed to Andrei Sokolov) as I have a big interest in chess history. But I appreciate that the average chess fan wouldn't. Alexander Morozevich is an example of a player who doesn't get 25% of the credit he deserves. I think most chess fans would know who she was if she was male mainly because she broke Bobby Fischer's youngest GM record but of course we can't ever know. 

lfPatriotGames
Kowarenai wrote:

yeah she is just a undisputed legend, the female magnus if you consider it that way

That sounds like a pretty subjective opinion. But even if that were true, would the "average person" have any idea what we are talking about? Even among chess players she doesn't have the name recognition that sports stars have. Someone who has never played basketball in their life knows who Michael Jordan is. Or someone who has never played golf knows who Tiger Woods is. 

But will someone, the "average person" who has never played chess have any idea who Judit Polgar is? No, of course not. 

brianchesscake

Judit Polgar and her sisters story is very similar to Serena Williams and her story, except one is chess and one is tennis. Both of their fathers took the experimental approach of training their daughters from a young age and the women proved to be exceptionally skilled in the years that followed.

Of course, hard work and practice needs to be complemented with the right kind of motivation, drive, and maybe even talent, which is clear when you look at the differences in level attained between (for example) Judit and Susan, or between Serena and Venus.