Karpov and Kasparov - Soviet Politics questions

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fyy0r

I read somewhere that Karpov was the intended successor of Spassky, and that the Soviets favored Karpov more than Kasparov, despite boths apparent skill, and that for some reason they pushed Karpov into the spotlight and tried purposefully hindering Kasparov for a while.  And that it wasn't until Kasparov really started picking things up that they could no longer ignore him.  Is this accurate?  If so could others give more insight. 

 

I wish I could elaborate more, or atleast give my source but I don't remember it.

goldendog

Karpov was a good little communist. He was just perfect for those in power as he pronounced their values and didn't rock the boat even slightly, and he looked to be strong enough to defeat all rivals.

"We have a world champion. We don't need another" was the sentiment when they regarded the up and coming Kasparov.

Atos

Karpov was, I believe, a member of the Communist Party and/or perceived as sympathetic to it while Kasparov's attitude might have seemed more pro-Western, so they would probably have prefered Karpov somewhat. However, Kasparov's accounts might have exaggerated the things.

philidorposition

I don't think Karpov was a commited communist, like Botvinnik truely was. He was just a member of the party, and seems to me like the typical shameless politician that goes wherever the wind blows.

Kasparov was a Jewish person born in Azerbaijan who had liberal views. Not the ideal politburo guy. He was ripped off by FIDE and the government in the match that went forever. They simply cut the match off because Karpov couldn't handle it anymore. Ofcourse, I'd take the shameless Karpov over Kasparov any day because Kasparov is much worse in a lot of respects, but in that match, he was really the victim.

Atos
philidor_position wrote:

I don't think Karpov was a commited communist, like Botvinnik truely was. He was just a member of the party, and seems to me like the typical shameless politician that goes wherever the wind blows.

Kasparov was a Jewish person born in Azerbaijan who had liberal views. Not the ideal politburo guy. He was ripped off by FIDE and the government in the match that went forever. They simply cut the match off because Karpov couldn't handle it anymore. Ofcourse, I'd take the shameless Karpov over Kasparov any day because Kasparov is much worse in a lot of respects, but in that match, he was really the victim.


Was he really the victim ? Karpov still had a 5 to 3 lead when the match was discontinued, and Kasparov was granted a rematch from zero score. This doesn't seem like an unreasonable or unfair decision, unless Kasparov wanted to win the match on the account of his better physical health rather than better chess play.

Atos

As the World's Champion from the USSR, Karpov would probably have been surrounded by the KGB whether he wanted it or not. No doubt he was a Party member and went along, but I think his actual political views were more Russian nationalist than Communist.

philidorposition

As far as I know, Karpov was in seriously bad physical and psychological condition towards the end, some suggest he had lost a lot of weight etc. And Kasparov had the "momentum," as they say, winning the last decisive games. For example, Kasparov didn't officially approve the decision to cancel the match, he "abided" the decision, while Karpov did approve.

ozzie_c_cobblepot
fyy0r wrote:

I read somewhere that Karpov was the intended successor of Spassky, and that the Soviets favored Karpov more than Kasparov, despite boths apparent skill, and that for some reason they pushed Karpov into the spotlight and tried purposefully hindering Kasparov for a while.  And that it wasn't until Kasparov really started picking things up that they could no longer ignore him.  Is this accurate?  If so could others give more insight. 

 

I wish I could elaborate more, or atleast give my source but I don't remember it.


This is the first I've heard of it, the part that they had a choice of both as a successor but chose Karpov.

Fact check (from Kasparov's wiki): born Baku,Azerbaijan Garry Kimovich Weinstein, 13 April 1963)

 

So it doesn't hold up to the smallest scrutiny. In the 1969-1972 cycle when Spassky was WC, and in the 1972-1975 cycle when Fischer was WC, Kasparov was too young. Sheesh, he only became a grandmaster in 1980.

It's much more likely that during the legendary K-K encounters that the Party favored Karpov, likely financially which meant greater resources also. But as a successor to Spassky, it doesn't make sense.

fyy0r
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:
fyy0r wrote:

I read somewhere that Karpov was the intended successor of Spassky, and that the Soviets favored Karpov more than Kasparov, despite boths apparent skill, and that for some reason they pushed Karpov into the spotlight and tried purposefully hindering Kasparov for a while.  And that it wasn't until Kasparov really started picking things up that they could no longer ignore him.  Is this accurate?  If so could others give more insight. 

 

I wish I could elaborate more, or atleast give my source but I don't remember it.


This is the first I've heard of it, the part that they had a choice of both as a successor but chose Karpov.

Fact check (from Kasparov's wiki): born Baku,Azerbaijan Garry Kimovich Weinstein, 13 April 1963)

 

So it doesn't hold up to the smallest scrutiny. In the 1969-1972 cycle when Spassky was WC, and in the 1972-1975 cycle when Fischer was WC, Kasparov was too young. Sheesh, he only became a grandmaster in 1980.

It's much more likely that during the legendary K-K encounters that the Party favored Karpov, likely financially which meant greater resources also. But as a successor to Spassky, it doesn't make sense.


The bolded part is what I was trying to say.  I was trying to get insight as to why, but I think it was partially answered previously.

gorgeous_vulture

Regardless of who the party may have preferred based on politics, ethnicity or whatever, Karpov put together an amazing (possibly unmatched) collection of tournament results following the Fischer debacle. He set the bar pretty high. The party wanted to back a winner: one can imagine scepticism that a flashy newcomer would really be able to overcome a machine like Karpov.

ozzie_c_cobblepot

Given that in 1975 the world was a short 15 years removed from the flashy Tal overcoming the Botvinnik machine, it's understandable that people were thinking along the lines of "A player like Tal only comes along once every hundred years".

Atos

 I don't think the Party actually cared too much whether Karpov of Kasparov would be the champ - seeing that both were from the USSR- but after Korchnoi's case they might have been worried about defection. If Kasparov became World Champion and then defected, this would have been a real slap to them. However, this didn't happen.

gorgeous_vulture
ozzie_c_cobblepot wrote:

Given that in 1975 the world was a short 15 years removed from the flashy Tal overcoming the Botvinnik machine, it's understandable that people were thinking along the lines of "A player like Tal only comes along once every hundred years".


Well yes, true but I am trying to think like a staid communist party official here Laughing

ozzie_c_cobblepot

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0yDrtNEr_5M

Atos

One irony that comes to mind is that the "commie" Karpov is now a billionaire.

vinco_interdum
Atos wrote:

One irony that comes to mind is that the "commie" Karpov is now a bilionaire.


...as did most of the communists with any smarts after the system dissolved.

rigamagician

After Kasparov beat Belyavsky in the Candidates quarter-final match in March 1983, negotiations began on where to hold his semi-final match against Korchnoi.  Both Kasparov and Korchnoi wanted to play in Rotterdam, but the Soviet Sports Committee suggested to Kasparov that he list Las Palmas as his first choice, and Rotterdam as his second.  FIDE president Campomanes used this as an excuse to choose Pasadena which had offered FIDE more money.  Garry was called into the propaganda department of the USSR Communist Party Central Committee where he was advised to refuse to play in Pasadena.  Kasparov implies that Karpov's supporters were deliberately trying to block his road to the championship by pushing for the Smyslov-Ribli match to take place, but for Kasparov to forfeit his match to Korchnoi.  In fact though, Karpov himself met with Kasparov, and suggested that he contact Aliev, a member of the Politburo, to assure that Soviet stance tied the fate of Smyslov's match to Kasparov's.  It does seem possible that people in the Sports Committee and/or propaganda department were maneuvering to prevent Garry from playing, but Karpov made himself out to be an honest broker, trying to help Garry with the situation.

In the end, Korchnoi was awarded the match by default, but after an appeal from Tal, Petrosian, Spassky et al to the FIDE, negotiations were reopened, and Korchnoi agreed to play in exchange for an end to the Soviet boycott of tournaments where Korchnoi was playing.

fyy0r
Atos wrote:

One irony that comes to mind is that the "commie" Karpov is now a billionaire.


Interesting, I never knew that. 

Atos
fyy0r wrote:
Atos wrote:

One irony that comes to mind is that the "commie" Karpov is now a billionaire.


Interesting, I never knew that. 


He is the owner of energy company called Petromir, and estimated at approximately $2 billion.

http://susanpolgar.blogspot.com/2007/07/billionaire-world-champion.html

rigamagician

Another interesting aspect of the 1983 Candidates crisis was that when things looked bleakest, Smyslov sent a telegram to Andropov, who was at the time the leader of the Soviet national government.  Can you imagine?  Perhaps, if anyone tries to exclude Gata Kamsky from the upcoming candidates matches, he should write to Obama, and ask him to intervene. Tongue out

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