Magnus Carlsen shows his disgust over losing the World Blitz Championship

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Bishop_g5

Fabelhaft @ You can easily understand how much attention Carlsen puts in that game from he's words and from the journalist question. I am afraid that the whole interview was a set up! ...and not accidentally came in public yesterday after the situation calmed down.

Carlsen say : " It's impossible to play so many wrong moves! " It's sick! He knows that players with the level of Wojtaczek does not play positionally wrong moves. Carlsen say : " Wojtaczek played basic things wrong in the middlegame when time is still not an issue ". Then Karjakin again blundered the position and it was needed from Radoslaw to find how to lose the half point.

When Jobava blundered against Carlsen had less than 20 sec on he's clock in the ending.

Wojtaczek didn't blundered a piece or an ending in a sharp position. Wojtaczek played intentionally weak moves! That's Magnus Carlsen points out.

fabelhaft

"The "completely sick" part, plus the other remarks, give guide of what Carlsen was saying without explicitly saying it"

I don't think of it like that at all, he just says it was completely sick that Wojtaszek played the only losing move when a draw was enough for Carlsen. If Wojtaszek had thrown the game, as Carlsen explicitly said he hadn't, he would surely have done it in a different way :-)

fabelhaft

"Why did he repeat the same that many times?"

Because he was angry about not winning and thought it was completely sick that Wojtaszek lost from that position? I don't think he or anyone else for a second would suggest or believe that someone like Wojtaszek would throw games.

Bishop_g5

 Lets see the game. I certainly dont have the ability to undestand were Radoslaw played suspicius if he did, but there are some points to hint. First of all i give a bulletproof to Radoslaw saying that he went to achieve a three fold repetition by repeating moves with Bf4-Nh5-Bc1-Nf6 think which show that he didnt care about Karjakin. Sergey allowed him to play a superior Catalan position but again Wojtazcek didnt excused hes superiority with activity but rather staying passive.

The move 57.Kg2 instead of capturing the pawn its suicidal one. Even if Wojtaszek didnt had intention to lose this ending, its difficult to understand and excuse hes decision. 



fabelhaft

"He didn't win the Rapid World Championship a few days earlier and you'll find no such interviews, remarks or bad attitudes from Carlsen because of it"

So which game should he have been unhappy about in the rapid tournament? He was angry about the blitz event because he only needed Wojtaszek to draw that game, and he had a +8 something position. The rapid tournament was entirely different and while he surely wasn't happy about that outcome either, there the reporters couldn't ask him what he felt when he saw player X lose from a winning position etc.

Bishop_g5

Fabelhaft@

In the Rapid event there was not a decisive game played so poorly like the one Wojtaszek vs Karjakin. He was not angry that Radoslaw missed to win or a draw. If you are in Magnus place and watch this game live , it's impossible to do not get mad with Wojtazsek performance. Especially the ending is away too difficult find an excuse why he misplayed it. I am even starting to sympathize Magnus behavior...I don't know how I would had react watching this game if I was in he's place. It's difficult to do not get hunt by demons!

fabelhaft

"Not being present and Carlsen not saying what else did he see that raised his suspicions, we just can't tell if they're justified or not"

Look, Wojtaszek didn't throw the game, Carlsen didn't raise any suspicions about it, and if anyone had they hadn't been justified. Carlsen was angry about how he didn't win the title, was pressed on what he felt when Wojtaszek lost etc and said that it was completely sick that he lost from that position etc etc. But in blitz things aren't that easy :-) 

Bishop_g5

Wojtaszek certainly throw the endgame...evidently unless you don't understand chess. Carlsen raised suspicions, proved by the video, words, body language, faces e.t.c and he is fully justified for it. It's quite unfair to lose a competition with 16.5/21 points because your first's rival, final opponent , played like an amateur.

Gerberk8

 

 

He comes over as a spoilt little kid..a child who is spoilt behaves badly if they do not get what they want, because people have always given them everything they want..

fabelhaft

"Care to explain why then was he praising Ivanchuk (right after losing to him) and smiling in the podium? I mean, Carlsen didn't win the Rapid WC, but his words and actions contradict what you're posting here"

OK, Carlsen was angry about how he didn't win the blitz (how = Wojtaszek blundered badly) but much less annoyed about how he didn't win the rapid. 

 

Gerberk8
JMurakami schreef:
Treesong wrote:

 

 

He comes over as a spoilt little kid..a child who is spoilt behaves badly if they do not get what they want, because people have always given them everything they want..

It does help reading other posts in the thread or, at the very least, those in the same page.

LOL>>>You can t say it often enough

fabelhaft

Well, Carlsen sure isn't the happiest loser in top chess, but compared to Kasparov he is quite sunny after his losses :-)

fabelhaft
JMurakami wrote:

Talking about Linares 1992? If so, posts #134 & #136 . The curious thing is that most witnesses agreed on one of the things Kasparov did shout: "I'm chess and by insulting me you're insulting chess!" That remark alone is worth a book.

No, and not just Linares 2003 either :-) After he lost against Deep Blue he said the computer team had been cheating, after he lost a few games against Karpov in a title match he accused a team member of having given his opening preparation to Karpov (without a hint of proof), his opinion of Kramnik after losing against him has been quite low, and there has been lots of talk about his slamming doors etc after losing a game to Anand, I think the list can be made much longer than that but I don't recall all the instances :-)

Bishop_g5

Kasparov manipulated chess professionalism in a way no one has completely understand. He's behavior is a result of the power has been given to him. When Topalov lost the "toiletgate" in 2006 he bublished a book https://www.amazon.com/Topalov-Kramnik-2006-World-Chess-Championship/dp/1888690399 , where tried very elegant to describe how dirty is this chess world we are watching. Unfortunately Kasparov used chess to grow he's glory and legendary and accusing seconds or yelling on organizers and slamming doors is nothing in front what he actually did.

Bishop_g5

Nowdays Topalov drop he's rating 80 points and can't anymore follow the biggest events ( Grand Chess Tour) earning money, he remembered he's rivalry against FIDE announcing he's way out. 

 Magnus is right . It's sick watching all this.

 

fabelhaft

"Whether Carlsen was right or wrong, at least lets keep the eye in the ball and talk about what this really is"

He was angry that Wojtaszek lost from a very winning position after making several blunders, not angry that Karjakin cheated by having Wojtaszek throw the game... If he was right or wrong to be angry, well, I'm sure Kasparov and Fischer would have been more angry if that's some sort of excuse :-) 

fabelhaft

"you refuse to accept all the evidences"

The "evidence" consists of a couple of people on the Internet suggesting that Carlsen's saying that Wojtaszek managed to find the only losing move means that he claims that Wojtaszek actually tried to find the only losing move, as in, "oh, I forgot I was paid to lose this game and now I somehow got a winning position, it will be really difficult to find a losing move here... phew! I found it! Yay!"

"Maybe you should read this to expand your knowledge on this matter"

If cheating exists in chess, player X must have accused player Y of cheating in the event Z, at least I think I got my understanding of logic expanded :-)

fabelhaft

"no one here told Carlsen to use the word "sick". No one here told Topalov to make those declarations. No one here told FIDE to hire Azmaiparashvili, and on and on and on"

It is certainly true no one here told Carlsen to say it was insane that Wojtaszek had to play the only losing move in the position. Connecting that to Azmaiparashvili, Topalov, hidden cellphones, online game engine use, and the missing hall of angels is another thing :-)

Bishop_g5

No, Carlsen never used the word insane. He said Sick! Absolutely Sick! He says " It's impossible to play so many wrong moves! " It's Sick! This characterism hides an intention behind criticism on Wojtazcek performance. Perhaps he was not losing intentionally but it not looks he tried to win or even drawn the endgame! For he's own reasons. Perhaps he don't like Carlsen. Unfortunately what happens in FIDE generally makes all this look like being under the same spirit.

Anyway Carlsen's reaction and interview was a message, that he will not tolerate such behavior from other chess players in the future with out comment or express he's feelings about. He has right to do so, if he feels there is an intention.

fabelhaft

"No, Carlsen never used the word insane. He said Sick!"

Carlsen said "det er sykt", which is a standard expression you can find everywhere:

"Det er sykt hvor fort folk glemmer"

http://vgd.no/sport/fotball-premier-league/tema/1562261/tittel/english-clubs-need-winter-break

"Det er sykt hvor stort Minecraft har blitt"

http://www.gathering.org/tg16/article/69/er-du-klar-for-tidenes-apningsshow

"Jeg satte ny årsrekord med over en halv meter. Det er sykt, sier Berge"

http://www.iveland.kommune.no/best-naar-det-gjelder.5554944-294428.html

The obvious meaning being it's insane how quickly people forget, how big Minecraft has become, how much longer I jumped etc etc etc...