Male vs. Female Players

Hi all,

I think I have something interesting for digestion: Why are there separate Chess titles for men and women?  By having this, they are implying that there are differences in our ability to play chess.  For me, I can understand why there are separate leagues for mens' or womens' physical competition, e.g. football, basketball, tennis, boxing,etc. - Simply because of the shear physicality of the game.  Although there are women and maybe some men who beg to differ, in my opinion, women in general would be at a great disadvantage - And there's real data that supports this.  But, chess, a MENTAL sport, essentially requiring no physical prowess, has also, a parallel socialization that supports segregation.

Maybe, people might point to data (that in the highest echelon, men are higher rated) but this could be due to a smaller pool of female chess players.  Have women not protested this?  If they have, what was the explanation and result?  What is FIDE's position with regard to this?  Obviously, this is a controversial subject, but an interesting one! 

interesting question. Everything stems from War you see, everything where you can beat the other person, all sports, games, ect ect. Sport was created when war was no longer needed so you can live afterwards. Japanese especially didn't like living in defeat, and died or killed themselves. War is really a mans business, men on the front line. Men like war, and every type of competition is different for men than women due to this reason. There was a time where women were not allowed to run the 800m due to physical elements. 

It's no surprise that most players are male here at chess dot com and every chess club in the country/World. I don't know much more than that really, however I believe for a woman to achieve the same as a man in the chess World they have probably worked a lot harder.   Same as Poker, filled with men why do they have the woman's only poker tourny? 

I think women are just as good as men in chess.

"b/c their brains are smaller...it's science" JUST KIDDING, i really do not think that way at all.. actually, women are allowed to compete in the World Poker Tournament alongside of men, why more don't is entirely up to each and every woman to decide for themselves... i really don't see what "war" has to do w/ it or why that would even be a valid argument...women are allowed in the military (just for the sake of responding to it)

This is an extremely interesting topic, i don't believe that, all things being equal, a woman would have to work harder to achieve the same as a man in chess because it is a game of independant mental ability and there's no way for any "outsider" to handicapp that when it comes to the board.  I think the stigma, as is typical universally in dealing w/ bias, would be the toughest thing to overcome...but all it takes is for one woman to stand out. Personally, i think it'd be great to see more women players and there's no reason or argument that should separate chess players, outside of skill level.  I think in general, chess is in need of a major revival, at least, from my perspective, not enough people play it, not enough people are taught in growing up and not enough people pursue it and this effect, based on traditional gender bias, is amplified upon woman.

I def. back the whole non-segregation of the sport, who knows maybe that whole "age old" theory of men being creatures of reason and women being creatures of emotion could shattered or possibly add some interesting curveballs to the competition....

"b/c their brains are smaller...it's science"

although true, they are smaller than men and therefore have a greater mass of brain to body than men do, therefore it's been said that women are smarter, 

kingforce, my opening comment was a joke, it's a line from a movie, supposed to be funny.... if you read the rest of what i wrote then u would see i was being extremely sarcastic w/ that opening comment. i don't know if you were trying to construe what i was saying as something else, but i think my words speak for themselves and paint a very clear picture of my opinion.....

also, here's an interesting fact:  "there are no consistent sex differences in IQ, yet men generally have larger brains."      

If the facts show an even playing ground then the game should be played on one ground by all participates regardless of sex, or whatever else one can come up w/.....i think that should clear up any misconceptions of my stance on this....

I started a joke....la lala..and started the whole world ..crying...la la la..only i couldnt' see...la la la la la..that the joke was on....

Yeah this needs to be changed. girls also need to be encouraged to do competitive things as children more than they are currently.

i think that's the key Phelon... everyone, in general, should be encouraged into chess at a very young age... in the case of women i think that's where the playing field gets leveled out and any type of separation or any tourneys or clubs that encourage that separation need to re-evaluate themselves and consider whether they are truly cultivating this beautiful sport or hindering it... and i as well am very curious to know FIDE's stance on this

http://www.physorg.com/news150954140.html

Not so fascinating an article but ok...

I have been thinking about it myself recently (having separate comps, etc)... does seem like a depressing concession of failure.

BUT, some women absolutely rock at chess- check out Yelena Dembo (Demba??) on this site, she's great!

 Furthermore, Neanderthals had even bigger brains than (Homo Sapiens) men ;)

Can I rephrase the question a little? 

Is there a genuine difference in potential attainment of chess mastery betwen female and male players?  By "genuine", I mean a difference that exists even after everything else is equalized:  training time, age at which chess was first learned, methods taught and teachers used, IQ scores.

Supposing there is a genuine difference between male and female players, why does it exist (or would it exist, if you have a hypothesis)?  Is it because chess is culturally biased or linked to sex role stereotypes (perhaps due to the "warlike" aspect of chess)?  Or does it lie in differentials in cognitive abilities of men and woment?  Which abilities?  Perhaps it is due to differing interests of men and women.  What drives these interests in the directions they are seen to go?

The answers to these may seem obvious to some, but if it's too obvious, we'll probably fail to understand the nature of the question.

Also, does anyone know if there have been formalized studies of male-female differences in chess mastery? Have there been significant demographic studies of chess players in general?  Has anyone ever suggested that chess ability might be heritable?

Thanks!

Is the purpose of the title not to encourage female participation in the game. For instance they can get entry into competitions which they would otherwise would miss out on.

This ain't fact, just me thinking out loud. But I do think that it was meant to strengthen the pool of female players and also get more on board.

men have larger pen#$%s than women, and thats where the envy comes from... and if men do all the waring then why is the queen the strongest piece... just like a man to hide behid a woman.

p.s. this is a joke hope(kinda) hope my first statement doesnt offend.

I think it has to do with the male female ratio. Suppose 1000 people play chess and 10 are women. What are the odds of any of them being in the top ten. About 1/100. Since the pool of women is smaller the logical result is women dont make it to the highest ranks because there's less of them and a less chance of it occuring. To rectify this there are women grand master titles etc. The requirements to earn these are lower due to the facts I stated above. It doesn't imply that women aren't as good at chess it just shows that not enough women play chess and as a result they have to lower the standards to equalize this balance. Obviousley if chess was a half n half men and women sport, yes I feel chess is a sport, then there would be no seperate titles.

i thought about this too, there can't be any relationship between gender and chess aptitude.  Since there is a difference in thinking maybe females could something new to chess...at least a bigger fan base

Just statistics. Next question!

You should change your name to "CzarWithinMorons" with a comment like that. Shouldn't be too hard for you, you'll only have to put in one "r".

Good luck ever finding a mate. Checkmate or otherwise.

Studies have shown that there are more male geniuses than female.  Typically, men show a higher variance of intelligence than women, so they have more really smart people.  These really smart people would be better at chess than the general public so consequently, they have two titles because women cannot reach the top male in rating.  Men also think more logically, so they have the edge when it comes to chess. (Not in an argument mind you!  The lady always wins! :P)

Well you know i use to think that women can't reach top levels until Polgar came along and now i think that women are improving in all aspects not only chess , finace , education, medical, and even divorses, anyway, i hope you get my point, times are changing. ;)