Master White and Black at the Same Time or Focus on One First?

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quadrewple

I've played chess for almost a year and I've haven't heard any advice from the few books I've read or this forum on some insights about that question.  I'd love to hear from people 1800+ but intelligent comments from anyone are greatly appreciated!

LavaRook

There is no such thing as "Mastering w/ white and black"

1) You can't fully 'master' one color and play it perfectly. In fact, nobody, not even the world champion can play " 100 % perfect" chess in general.The best chess engines may come infinately close but even they aren't 100 % perfect.

2) You should be playing as both white and black in games.Never only white or only black.

The idea is to improve in general in chess. It shouldn't matter as much whether you are white or black. Generally, as white you should always be aiming for an advantage while as Black you can choose to equalize and then go for an advantage or go for an advantage straight away (which is harder and more risky too)

Of course, at our level it doesn't matter as much whether we play white or black but most people find playing as white a bit easier.

Focus on increasing your tactical ability and your positional/strategical skills and learn a few openings. Don't play system openings like some people do though since it doesn't get you exposed to different pawn structures/ideas and a variety of tactics, etc...

chessmaster102

how do you know that. If a world champion had the choice at the very begging of playing chess to play one side for the rest of his life who's to say he wouldn't all his openin study would be pretty easy

LavaRook
chessmaster102 wrote:

how do you know that. If a world champion had the choice at the very begging of playing chess to play one side for the rest of his life who's to say he wouldn't all his openin study would be pretty easy


I don't see what point your trying to get across...

But anyways the fact is that won't happen so its irrelevant...

And I'm talking about serious games here.......

chessmaster102
LavaRook wrote:
chessmaster102 wrote:

how do you know that. If a world champion had the choice at the very begging of playing chess to play one side for the rest of his life who's to say he wouldn't all his openin study would be pretty easy


I don't see what point your trying to get across...

But anyways the fact is that won't happen so its irrelevant...

And I'm talking about serious games here.......


If you don't see the point than there's no point in you commenting and maybe you won't ever get it. but I know people who only play for fun and as one color whenever there challenge and that's the only color they'll ever play even against and they beat guys in the 2300's regularly except in bullet which to me doesn't count so for you to sya its irrevalent is ingnorance.

LavaRook

Ok but in serious tournament games, you will have to play both colors....

I know not everyone plays seriously but still just for the sake of broadening your experience  play both colors....

Silfir

Let's stay out of fairy tale land for a second, eh?

You can't master white or black, you can only master chess. Exact opening theory is different, but that only really matters at a higher level.

Attempts you make to try and stack the deck in your favor before the match even begins, by "choosing" colors so you always play white, playing trappy openings, will help you win, but not learn. If your goal is to learn how to become better, you should make an effort to see as many different kinds of positions as possible, from both sides of the board.

Consider that having players play "your" openings against you can be highly educational, especially if you lose, very especially if you lose in a fashion you didn't see coming at all. The possibility of seeing the other side of your favorite openings as white or black alone is enough reason not to neglect one color in favor of the other.

EDIT: Oh yeah, let's totally use bullet in an argument on learning. All you can learn by playing bullet is how to play bullet. That's fine if that's what you're after, but most people do enjoy playing proper chess.

chessmaster102
LavaRook wrote:

Ok but in serious tournament games, you will have to play both colors....

I know not everyone plays seriously but still just for the sake of broadening your experience  play both colors....


Agreed

chessmaster102

EDIT: Oh yeah, let's totally use bullet in an argument on learning. All you can learn by playing bullet is how to play bullet. That's fine if that's what you're after, but most people do enjoy playing proper chess.

someones not getting it Wink

quadrewple

What I was getting at with my question was isolated position study versus a large variety.  If isolated position is widely recommended then playing as a single opening with one of the colors would probably be good.  If large variety, then I'd pick maybe three openings and only use those until I'm comfortable with those three.

chessmaster102
Godspawn wrote:
chessmaster102 wrote:

EDIT: Oh yeah, let's totally use bullet in an argument on learning. All you can learn by playing bullet is how to play bullet. That's fine if that's what you're after, but most people do enjoy playing proper chess.

someones not getting it


Please dont tell me that someone is seriouly trying to use bullet chess as a tool to learn and get better at chess???


Will you read the whole thing I mentioned the to me bullet DOESNT count  the game here chess it wouldnt hurt to much to pay attention.

blake78613

You need to work on your Black repertoire first.  A second best move as Black can be fatal.  You can get away with a lot when playing White where a second best move means Black equalizes.  You will notice that most GMs have a much narrower repertoire with Black than White.

Silfir

Whoops, I cannot read, very sorry

Frankdawg

It is harder to play as black than it is to play as white. Even though material is even & the position is mirrored at the start of every game I would say white has about some place between 1/10 and 1/3 of a pawn advantage on most mainline openings.

That is through computer analysis and I have never seen a partial pawn on a board.

You will never master chess nor will any human and probably no computer either for at least a century. I won't consider chess mastered until computers have a 32 piece tablebase, and like I said we won't see it in our lives maybe some of our great great grandkids will when they are elderly.

I believe playing as black is harder and makes you have to play more accurately in order to win or draw. However you should play as both sides so you can learn how others react in given situations.

DerekReignn

White or Black, You can execute your plan the same. I have learned to play from either side. You have the remember that nothing changes, only your perception, and that you can adjust. You must master the art of adaptation.

blake78613
LordNazgul wrote:

You can't master one without mastering the other, as there are two sides in every game.


When you study your Black repertoire you are also learning the variation from the White side, but what if White plays different defenses than you do?

yusuf_prasojo
quadrewple wrote:What I was getting at with my question was isolated position study versus a large variety.  If isolated position is widely recommended then playing as a single opening with one of the colors would probably be good.  If large variety, then I'd pick maybe three openings and only use those until I'm comfortable with those three.

That is a clever question, and I think difficult to answer. Notice that there is one variable left from your question, which is timeframe.

It is true that focused or isolated study is better. The question is how to implement it. And how much focused? Women are known to be able to focus on more things than men. And then which one to focus on, your weakest link? The one you are already good at? The one you really hate?

Then, there are "lessons" that you can learn/study independent of the colour (So if you want to include this also into your study, it doesn't matter Black or White).

Then, lets see the timeframe issue. Of course you don't want to study exclusively using White for two years and never play Black. This way, your "White rating" may be 2000 but your "Black rating" may only be 1500. This is not good as imo you should work on your weakest link, which is the "Black rating" here.

As far as studying opening (or building an opening repertoire), once you choose 1.e4 (which is tactical) you should not play 1.d4 (positional) at the same time (may be for some years) because it will be too broad.

Also when you choose 1.e4 imo you should consistently continue with the same line (at most 2). For example, here I always answer 1.e4 e5 with 2.f4 (King's Gambit) tho for "real" game I have prepared the Ruy Lopez (and previously the Scotch).

Inside the King's Gambit, I don't always play the same variation because I want to "feel" it (i.e. learning from mistakes), but when it comes to my focused study then I will usually follow the same moves.

So, basically I play Black and White, but the "FOCUS" IS NOT GIVEN TO EVERYTHING. I'm also focusing on the same time control here (which is currently 5/0)

yusuf_prasojo
yusuf_prasojo wrote:I'm also focusing on the same time control here (which is currently 5/0)

Ah, I can see that you posted a question regarding your problem with time control. You got good answers from ivandh and shivsky there. Now you know why I'm focusing at 5/0 myself. I have learnt a lot imo. In bullet/blitz I have learnt how to:

1) Not stop thinking, and how to choose candidate moves, so when your opponent make a move you already have the answer.

2) No need to go uselessly deep in one variation. But scan for all possible answer. This also develop pattern recognition.

3) Be aware of the clock. It is not easy, but I can glance at the clock more and more than I usually could.

quadrewple
AnthonyCG wrote:

What books have you read?


Silman's Complete Book of Chess Strategy and working on Complete Endgame Course.  In Complete Chess Strategy he recommends that you stick with an opening for around a year to build up your understanding of the positions in middle and endgame that arise from that opening.

Sceadungen

You should study one opening at a time, be it Black or White.

Whatever opening you choose is really irrelevant just get to know and enjoy playing it.

Lately I have been playing 1 a3 in Blitz, serves just as well as anything else.